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#1
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#2
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![]() Poor Clay - he does mean well, but I don't think physics was his major - after all he's a swim coach. I think the you tube comments of the video say it all. We are not boats (or lengths of lumber) where buoyancy is neutral floating on the surface, but rather mostly submerged closer to that of a submarine where center of buoyancy and center of mass are different in every vessel or body. Using Clay's logic, we don't see the bow of a submarine pointing up, but is the same consistent shape beginning with a narrow point to open the passage for the rest of the vessel to slip through. I do admire the building of his props though - he spent some time and effort to make a moot point.
Stuart |
#3
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![]() But, he does have a point at 1:48. Breathing is a lot easier when your head is less submerged and gets more challenging when you are spearing deeper.
(I remember CoachStuart has a glide drill sequence to experiment with getting the right head position.) Isn't it fair to say that there is some trade offs to every great design? I could be wrong, but part of the reason we rotate 45 to 60 degrees in TI (head and torso combined), is to compensate for the head being slightly submerged.
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Lloyd. Stillness is the greatest revelation. -- Lao Tzu The light of the body is the eye. -- J. Ch__st. |
#4
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![]() Quote:
Yes there are fast/elite swimmers with a higher head position but they can swim well in spite of it and at some speed & skill level the issues become less volatile, and there is a little room for play. Most people are not at this level. But feel free to play with a higher head position and lifting the head to breath. Clay does have a point about submerged heads and flat bodies which I agree with. But he presents his issue as if it's a dichotomy between heads up and submerged head. There are inbetweens. Also the shoulder girdle moves much more freely when the head is neutral than when it's up.
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Suzanne Atkinson, MD Level 3 USAT Coach USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass Steel City Endurance, LTD Fresh Freestyle |
#5
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![]() Suzanne's point about the mouth is valid, and this may be a major problem. If we had our mouth's in our forehead, this might be a great way to swim. So here is an experiment that someone with a snorkel might try. With a snorkel you can try to swim like Clay's board and you don't have to worry about breathing. It would be interesting to see if snorkel swimming actually works better this way. :o)
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#6
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![]() The advantage of the wooden surfboard is that it doesnt have a survival instinct and no arms to act upon this instinct.
This makes that it resembles only a tilting of the head, and not an active lifting of the head.(lifting the head by pressing water down) If the head is only tilted a bit forward and that happens independant of other actions that are going on, (so the tilting is not accompanied by pressing water down, or changing the arch of the back), the effect on balance is minimal. Straightening the upperspine including the neck is a head lifting movement relative to the rest of the body. (swimmming with aquatic posture) The head moves a bit forward and in the direction of the back (is up) when you swim with a long and straight neck. (compared to a forward hunched commen dryland posture) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmx4nctdyFs As you dont press extra water down when you lift the head in this manner its actually good for your balance, and it also lifts your mouth when holding the head at the same angle. so it makes breathing easier. Dont think tilting the head a bit does improve streamline compared to a an inline head held in aquatic posture. If a forward hunched posture is your normal state, just letting the head relax into weightlessness in your usual posture might bring the head in a position that is too low. A Polish (?) coach shows Suzannes point that the mouth is lowerd when tilting the head and a little boy with very good breathing technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExUnZ_XipBM Last edited by Zenturtle : 06-29-2016 at 10:38 PM. |
#7
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![]() Quote:
https://youtu.be/CGDmbFz2OI0 In my case I remember I had a nagging problem of having the head elevated from the early onset. I may then have rectified it by 'overcompensating' and having it lower than TI standard..
__________________
Lloyd. Stillness is the greatest revelation. -- Lao Tzu The light of the body is the eye. -- J. Ch__st. |
#8
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#9
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![]() It seems ZT is independently wealthy and has plenty of free time to scan the internet all day for interesting videos.
Coach Dave Cameron is so right on head position and perceived head position on elite swimmers. There's no reason to bend your neck to get air regardless of speed. But there are still plenty of swimmers looking for the promise land of air as if their mouth is located on their forehead - since that is the human instinct to raise the head for air. Why someone would advise a swimmer to lift head to be more buoyant and get air easily is beyond me. Almost as if they never paid attention to the body when the head lifts and is driven by perceptions without challenge. Stuart Last edited by CoachStuartMcDougal : 06-30-2016 at 07:33 AM. |
#10
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![]() As far as I know, some pros of swimming with a higher head could be:
- it prevents overrotation - it prevents cross over or too narrow tracks - it aids proprioception - stroke rate increases a bit (but you also reach less forward) - it aids the catch (how firm does the catch feel when swimming head-up waterpolo style, it's like climbing a mountain) As for breathing, I think it's easy both with high or neutral head once you learn. That said, balance is not negotiable. If raising the head affects balance even just a little bit (as usually happens), I'd say forget about high head. Salvo |
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