Transition between catch and pull.

[Talvi]

In a video of my swim that I posted recently I've noticed what looks like a big flaw in my transition between catch and pull.

What I am referring to is apparent in the video at 0:34 and especially at 1:09.

I've isolated a still, that exemplifies this, and attach that here, together with a comparison still taken from the same point in the stroke cycle from a Shinji video.

Besides the obviously different stages of rotation in the photos (something else to be thought about), the difference I'm referring to is that my elbow is much closer to my body.

It looks striking and I'd appreciate ideas for why it's happening and how I might go about addressing it.

[Janos]

Shinji is about to about to drive past his catch arm. Using the momentum from shoulder drop, arm extension and kick, he will supplement the final 45 degrees of rotation with his hip drive.
You on the other hand have finished rotating, and all that is left to do now is pull the arm back, rather than catch the water.

[Talvi]

Hi Janos

The points in the cycle are the same. I'll triple check them again tomorrow but that was the point of the thread and why I made those particular stills. It's the point in the cycle that I'm referring to as the transition point, between catch and pull. As you say the catch is complete.

There is, as you point out, the timings of the rotation to take into account, but that is a separate matter, in so far as anything can be said to be separate in swimming. Anyway, aeven though it's important, I was looking for insight into my elbow position etc rather than observations on rotation.

At that point in the cycle, my elbow comes to face backwards. Mad! The transition moment is very brief. I confess to not having really focused on it before and I haven't heard it mentioned on the forum before but it still seems something quite pronounced (to me anyway). It is at this point in the cycle that my elbow is so close to my body - and that seems very odd.

Hope that clarifies a bit.

Thanks for diving in.

[Janos]

Sorry Talvi, I sent my previous post by phone, so it was a bit too brief. My point is that there is a difference between a catch and a pull.
In your position in the pic, all that is left for you to do to gain traction is to pull the arm back through the water using your shoulders.
Shinji however has just kicked and sent his leading arm forward, which in itself creates momentum. A situation he will exploit further by driving with his hips as his body completes its rotation. It is this forward movement, that is created without pulling, that now uses the catch arm as a fulcrum. I can't speak for Shinji of course, but like most TI swimmers I model my stroke on his and that is the train of thought that I use when practising.
Also, your arm position will be different due to the differences in your torso positioning. My advice would be not to break the stroke down into 12 different aspects, but to use the Shinji pic position as one of perhaps four positions or 'poses' if you like, and scroll through them as you go down the pool...and forget about times or SPL for now. Just try to attain good form at a slow speed, and then start challenging yourself.

Regards

Janos

[CoachDavidShen]

Originally Posted by Janos

Shinji is about to about to drive past his catch arm. Using the momentum from shoulder drop, arm extension and kick, he will supplement the final 45 degrees of rotation with his hip drive.
You on the other hand have finished rotating, and all that is left to do now is pull the arm back, rather than catch the water.

hey Talvi, Janos is right. note the difference in shoulder position bet you and shinji. if you want to examine things, i think you need to submit a frame of yourself a few moments before this. or show shinji a few moments after his frame, depending on what you really want to examine.

[CharlesCouturier]

Originally Posted by Talvi

In a video of my swim that I posted recently I've noticed what looks like a big flaw in my transition between catch and pull.

What I am referring to is apparent in the video at 0:34 and especially at 1:09.

I've isolated a still, that exemplifies this, and attach that here, together with a comparison still taken from the same point in the stroke cycle from a Shinji video.

Besides the obviously different stages of rotation in the photos (something else to be thought about), the difference I'm referring to is that my elbow is much closer to my body.

It looks striking and I'd appreciate ideas for why it's happening and how I might go about addressing it.

Impossible to tell based on these stills. What you identify as being a probable problem may actually be a nice feature, i.e. passing the elbow correctly to transition from pull to push. In other words, your still is taken a bit later in the pull through phase, compared to that of the model you compare yourself to.

[Talvi]

Charles, I wrote a long reply to you here before finding your other reply on my: "Finally..." video thread! :D As you've answered this issue there, and so clearly, I won't reply to it here again - and I've quoted from your reply here there ... err, if you see what I mean. Hope you can get to answer my follow up questions there.

Meanwhile, thanks for both of your replies. Truly kind, and greatly appreciated!