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  #1  
Old 09-07-2010
rkatkin rkatkin is offline
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rkatkin
Default What is a stroke? How many strokes per pool length?

Hi All, Two newbie questions for you:
1. What is a stroke? If I breath in on my left side and then my left arm enters the water, then I breath out under water and as I'm doing so my right arm enters the water, and then I come up for air on my left side with my left arm coming out of the water, have I taken ONE stroke or TWO strokes? (sorry for asking such a fundamental question). In other words, every time my left arm enters the water, have I taken one stroke or two strokes?
2. How many strokes would a moderately accomplished TI swimmer need in order to go one length of a 25 yard (or 25 meter) pool?
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  #2  
Old 09-07-2010
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CoachJohnB CoachJohnB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkatkin View Post
Hi All, Two newbie questions for you:
1. What is a stroke? If I breath in on my left side and then my left arm enters the water, then I breath out under water and as I'm doing so my right arm enters the water, and then I come up for air on my left side with my left arm coming out of the water, have I taken ONE stroke or TWO strokes? (sorry for asking such a fundamental question). In other words, every time my left arm enters the water, have I taken one stroke or two strokes?
2. How many strokes would a moderately accomplished TI swimmer need in order to go one length of a 25 yard (or 25 meter) pool?
1) In freestyle or backstroke, each time a hand enters the water, that is considered one stroke.

2)Define moderately accomplished. I am of the belief that stroke counts are very much an individual thing. A person that is 6 ft may take 12 strokes(12 hand hits) to get down the length of a pool. A person that is 5'5 may take 20 strokes to get down the pool.

Depending on the speed one is going, the stroke count will vary as well. Don't get too caught up in getting the lowest number possible. Sometimes low numbers are a false indictator of efficiency.

If you are swimming comfortable, without feeling tired or winded, then you are probably in the ideal stroke range for you(but only you)
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  #3  
Old 09-07-2010
rkatkin rkatkin is offline
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rkatkin
Default Thank you Coach

Coach JohnB,
Thank you! It didn't occur to me that my height (5'8", 59 yrs old, 152 lbs) might have such a large influence on my stroke count.

At this stage in my training, I swim 25 meters with a stroke count of about 24-26 (with 24 when I first start and, after about 30 minutes, I'm at 26). So...I'm guessing I have lot of room for improvement...but I do wonder how far off I am from a stroke count that I would have if I were a TI swimming super star

That said, I can swim the 1.2 miles I need to do for a half-iron and feel relatively good (not winded and with little use of my legs so that they can handle the bike and run) in about 1 hour 5 minutes. Also, in the pool, I don't do flip turns and only use the wall for a very gentle push-off. So, while I'm pretty slow I can at least do the distance I need to do before the cut off time (usually 1 hour 20 minutes).
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Old 09-07-2010
Alex-SG Alex-SG is offline
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Hello rkatkin,

What is a normal stroke count per 25m lap?
It of course depends on height as well as SR=Stroke Rate (how many seconds for each stroke). If you stroke very fast (Ex. SR=0.7) you will not glide as much as if you stroke slowly (Ex. SR=1.7) therefore you will have more strokes per length.

I am at SPL=15 for 25m at a stroke rate of SR=1.8. I rate myself as a "B" TI swimmer. Very good guys seem to reach SPL=10-13

If you can bring down your SPL to 20 first that would be a good indication that you are achieving more glide/ a more TI swimming style. Aim for 18 after that.

What is your stroke rate now? (see the time it takes to swim 10 strokes and divide by 10.... EX: 10 strokes in 20sec means SR=2.0)

ALEX
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  #5  
Old 09-07-2010
terry terry is offline
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I worked assiduously the first 10 years of my TI practice to reduce my stroke count. At the end of that time, my stroke was impressively long - I managed to cross a 50m pool in 26 strokes one time; my SPL in 25y pools was typically 10 to 13.

But it gradually dawned on me that I'd focused so intently on lowering my SPL that I had really slowed my rate to do so. The result was that I had a bit of a "rut" in my nervous system, unable to get comfortable at rates of 1.2 sec/stroke or faster. Consequently I wasn't swimming very fast. But I could go long. I swam the 28.5-mile Manhattan Island Marathon in 2002 at an average SR of 49 strokes per minute, completing my loop in 30% fewer strokes than nearly anyone else in the field.

Over the last 4 to 8 years my emphasis has been far more on improving my pace. During much of that time I've used the Tempo Trainer quite a bit, and gradually became quite comfortable with tempos as fast as .85 sec/stroke.

Consequently my average SPL in a 25 yd pool is now 13-16. However, over the next 3 months I plan to work on improving my efficiency at all speeds and distances by one SPL in a 25y pool.

So your stroke count can go down, then you might choose to let it rise again. And then go the other way. It keeps life interesting and your neural circuits on the cutting edge.
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  #6  
Old 10-05-2010
chalkiewa chalkiewa is offline
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Default Stroke rate - Shinji

Just had my daily watch or, rather, marvel at the Shinji video and prompted by a post in another thread, counted the strokes.
Can people confirm that Shinji does a 25 yard length in 12 strokes, taking 20 seconds, according to the timer on the video? By my reckoning that's a stroke rate of around 1.67 seconds per stroke. I struggle with anything above 1.4 - just goes to show how much I need to work on balance and glide.
Next session I'm gong to slow down the tempo from 1.4 instead of my usual speed up and see what happens....
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Old 10-05-2010
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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To the best of my knowledge, in the videos on youtube, Shinji is swimming in a 25m pool. In one of the answers to a viewer's question he stated that he normally swims in a 20m pool, but that in that particular video he was in a 25m pool. Of course he also swims in the US and may well swim in 25 yard pools there, because most of the US seems to be still swimming yards. I suppose it would be horrendously expensive to convert all the thousands of pools that must exist in the USA into meter pools.
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Old 10-05-2010
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalkiewa View Post
Just had my daily watch or, rather, marvel at the Shinji video and prompted by a post in another thread, counted the strokes.
Can people confirm that Shinji does a 25 yard length in 12 strokes, taking 20 seconds, according to the timer on the video? By my reckoning that's a stroke rate of around 1.67 seconds per stroke. I struggle with anything above 1.4 - just goes to show how much I need to work on balance and glide.
Next session I'm gong to slow down the tempo from 1.4 instead of my usual speed up and see what happens....
Well. If you take this video you'll see that shinji does a nice push off, does half a stroke under water and then starts with the strokes. By that time 4 seconds have passed. Which means he does his 12 strokes in 16 seconds. That gives something around 1.3 seconds per stroke. So in fact this is a lot faster. Don't worry...
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