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  #11  
Old 11-03-2011
arunks arunks is offline
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Hello Petra, I am sorry for what you are experiencing.I feel doing Yoga would be great to bring in the needed relief for you.I practice Yoga and it has been extremely beneficial for me during the times of stress and exhaustion.It brings back the lost energy.
If you have not started practicing Yoga you can look at the online resources(Yoga Journal..) or get DVDs on Classical Yoga(Iyengar or Ashtanga Yoga)
Another DVD i found "Beat Fatigue with Yoga"
http://www.amazon.com/Beat-Fatigue-Y.../dp/1862043256

I found an article related to how Yoga can be used to cure CFS.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/93...gue-with-yoga/

Hope this helps.

Arun

Last edited by arunks : 11-03-2011 at 09:14 PM.
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  #12  
Old 11-04-2011
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
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Thanks, Petra, I have some doubt about being great but it's nice that you are saying it :-)

I want to comment a bit on FrankJ.
It's good to get reports from people who are dealing with it.
Nevertheless, these days we can notice an increasing number of people facing some symptoms related to fatigue and burn out, whatever it is called.
There is a reason, it doesn't come without. Of course I don't know what the reason is, but I think there are some indications.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankJ View Post
... I don’t think vitamins will make a difference. In developed countries, nutrition nowadays is much better than it has ever been-sure we eat a lot of trash, but I believe you won’t find manifest deficiencies and it doesn't sound like it would be your case. And I’m sure we all know people that regularly exercise without experiencing similar issues, in spite of eating a lot of crap. Also if a vitamin deficiency was the primary cause, you wouldn’t have developed these symptoms unless you changed your diet, which I understand it is not the case.
I can't quite agree with this.
It is true that in developed countries you will not see the diseases of an acute lack of vitamins or vital substances. E.g. you will not find scorbut anymore.
But there is a huge range between the minimum supply that prevents the symptoms of vitamin deficiency disease and the optimal supply. A set of experts in Germany found out that for 90 percent of the germans the intake of Vitamin D does not meet the recommended daily dose. That has fatal consequence for the health in higher age. The USDA reports for some essential vitamins that more than 50 percent of the female and male Americans do not consume enough of it compared to the RDA (Recommended Dietary Allowances).
Our food is more and more industrial processed. Vitamins and vital substances are usually quite delicate and the value decreases quite rapidly with transportation and storage times, being processed, cooked and so on.
Findings around the millenium change showed potatoes having 70 percent less calcium. I read a report about apples containing 80 percent less nutritional substances than 50 years ago. And so on.
Healthy food with high nutrional value is harder and harder to get - and gets more and more expensive. Poor people in the Industrial countries slowly, slowly do not get access to healthy food any more. There is plenty of cheap food. But cheap food has a strong tendency to be cheap.
The consequences of a constant undersupply of essential vitamins and minerals is different from developing deficiency diseases. Our metabolism can cope with under-supply for an amazingly long time. Sometimes lifelong. But in most cases it gives up after after some time, whatever long. We then develop sometimes strange and unspecified symptons that vary greatly in the individual and are difficult to trace back.
I see the following reasons why one could develop symptoms that result in a general feeling of being weak, always tired, basically fatigue. All of those particularly relevant in developed countries. And of course assuming that there is not a sleep deficit or other outer reasons that explain fatigue. There may be more, of course:

- too little physical activity
- an abrupt change in diet to the worse
- intake of a lot but single-sided nutrition
- a long term under supply of some or more essential vitamins and minerals
- some nice little animals like bacteria and especially viruses

The first two points are relatively easy to check out, the last three have to get clarified. The clarification of undersupply of vitams and vital substances is something you can do yourself through taking a high dose of supplements for a while and watch the result. When I was young my doctor gave me a depot shot of a Vitaman B complex a couple of times (not because of fatigue symptons, but simply sleeping too little, too intensive life, basically burining the candle at both ends - same result as fatigue syndrom, but you know why ;-) ). I remember that I felt like a mixture of Tarzan and Anrnold Schwarzenegger afterwards, it gave me such a boost.

I personally still try to resist the view that it is (getting) impossible to intake all essential vitamins and minerals with 'regular' healthy food. I hate the idea of the intake of supplementary substances. But I slowly get some doubt whether it's still possible to make it without.

The question remains. Why do people more and more suffer from fatigue syndroms, physical and mental disorders and the like? Not to speak of the increase in serious illnesses? There is a reason.
Not getting all the stuff we need for our physical well being through the way we deal with our food (chain) in our developed countries is a very strong candidate, IMHO.
In short I don't agree that the nutrition in developed countries nowadays is better than it ever was. It could be, we have all the knowledge and all the means. But we simply prefer cheap food to good food. Supported by a pharma-industry dominated medicine that is not really interested in using the potential healing and illness-preventing effect effect of healthy food. And a political system that is more interested in the monetary outcome of our economy than the health of the people.

It's a drag, basically.
But hope for you, Petra.

Last edited by haschu33 : 11-04-2011 at 10:26 AM.
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  #13  
Old 11-05-2011
dshen dshen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haschu33 View Post
I personally still try to resist the view that it is (getting) impossible to intake all essential vitamins and minerals with 'regular' healthy food. I hate the idea of the intake of supplementary substances. But I slowly get some doubt whether it's still possible to make it without.
we must remember that the FDA recommended daily intake of vitamins is for the broad segment of the population. it does not take into account the increased needs for nutrients that a hard training athlete needs, who is burning through nutrients super fast via training.

Petra, your age is definitely a factor. i am 46 now and it seemed that every 5 years i drop a little bit in my ability to recover and rebound from hard training. HOWEVER it does not mean i am getting slower - in fact, i am getting faster at my run races and my swim races despite the fact that i take more time to recover.

first, as CoachSuzanne has said, you should find a doctor who is also an athlete and familiar with the needs of hard training athletes. many docs simply do not have the experience to recommend the right thing to us athletes. it's not that they're stupid - it's just that they simply do not know. they are only used to working with more sedentary patients.

second, from your post i don't think we have enough info to diagnose your problem effectively. however, given that you are fatiguing a lot, the only recommendation i would give is to simply just take a week or two, or three off from training. as a hard training athlete, it can be really hard to do that mentally. but it sounds like that is what you need right now. i would not worry about losing something in that rest; these days when we train for ironman, we automatically prescribe an offseason where we're practically doing minimal or nothing at all, or just other things like skiing, weight training, or hiking which is typically in the winter time. then in the spring, we go back to our normal training when the season is about to begin. so there is a normal cycle of recharge of many months each year. i sense you are not getting that right now.

third, i would really explore the aspect of recovery. it is the least understood and hardest to implement of training strategies; we have a natural tendency to keep training hard every day for weeks on end. but the body and mind needs to rest or else it reach a breaking point and injury or ultimately overtraining will result. as we grow older, we need more time to recover. but as i mentioned, that does not mean we have to be slower. it could also mean cycling of days from hard to low instead of going hard day after day. it also means getting enough sleep every night.

fourth, i have personally discovered that nutrition does help recovery. for me it was taking a lot of extra vitamins, but more importantly i was simply not getting protein. so i started taking protein powder which magically brought my recovery in by a day or two after my long training days for ironman. your muscles and body need nutrients and protein to repair and you may not be eating enough!

please do report back here on your progress!
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  #14  
Old 11-06-2011
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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I'll second that while 41 isn't "old", I feel a HUGE difference in my energy level and overall strength/endurance for the worse than I did 5 years ago. I'll be 43 in a few weeks...and what I could do at 37 seemed to be much, much more...

However I am not quite willing to attribute that ONLY to being 5 years older. During those 5 years I have had gradually delcining physical activity due to work/stress/other obligations, giving me a lower baseline to start with and making it harder to reach the same level of fitness I used to be at.

I will also readily admit that my diet is far from optimal, and on and on. Finally, women go through, um, changes, even long before menopause.

I actually found a pharamcist (PharmD) who specializes in dealing with these changes in energy, physical activity, libido, etc,etc, who is helping me try some different stuff with nutrition and supplementation. She says that she works with a TON of doctors, both male and female, because we were never really taught this stuff. Maybe 1 day of nutrition, 1 day of the female hormone cycle, etc.

Don't give up adn be patient, and you'll be feeling better soon.
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USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
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  #15  
Old 11-08-2011
AlMalika AlMalika is offline
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Hi FrankJ,

I did all the tests you recommended in your post. There is nothing wrong. I also sent a personal message to you.

I still don't know exactly what is going wrong. Doing some slow training and will see how it works.
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  #16  
Old 11-08-2011
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMalika View Post
...

I did all the tests you recommended in your post. There is nothing wrong. ...

From the Wikipedia entry of CFS (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome), this is the list of diseases or disorders that should get clarified before calling it CFS (sorry, the list is in German), I guess some of those entries can quite easily be tested via a blood test, but not all.
Here we go:

"Aids, Anämie, Angsterkrankungen, chronische Hepatitis, Diabetes Mellitus, Fibromyalgie, Hämochromatose, HIV, Hyperkalzämie, Lyme-Borreliose, Depression, maligne Erkrankungen, Morbus Addison, Multiple Sklerose, Myasthenia gravis, Parkinson-Krankheit, Polymyalgie, Sarkoidose, Schlafapnoe, Thyreoiditis, Schilddrüsenunterfunktion, Schilddrüsenüberfunktion, Myopathien, Somatoforme Störungen, Lupus erythematodes sowie Zöliakie.
Des Weiteren sollte auch eine Perniziöse Anämie bzw. ein Vitamin B12-Mangel ausgeschlossen werden."

Quite a list, my god.

Something for the long boring winter evenings. :-)

I hope you find some solution soon, Petra.
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  #17  
Old 11-08-2011
FrankJ FrankJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMalika View Post
Hi FrankJ,

I did all the tests you recommended in your post. There is nothing wrong. I also sent a personal message to you.

I still don't know exactly what is going wrong. Doing some slow training and will see how it works.
Hi Petra,

I just sent you a PM.

F.
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  #18  
Old 11-09-2011
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
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Hi Petra,

How is it going??

Found a link to a discussion about overtraining:
Klick me


Hang on in there...
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  #19  
Old 11-10-2011
AlMalika AlMalika is offline
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Hi friends,

yesterday I swam for 37 minutes. Veeeerrryyy slow. After that it was no problem. At the beginning of the evening I felt worse. Overall fatigue. During the night it was terrible. My heart was pumping and I could not sleep.

After all the blood tests my doctor said you are a fountain of youth. Everything is alright. The only concern was the slightly heightened triglycerid. He said it could be a virus. I shouldn't do something strenuous. That's it.

The fact is I cannot do anything. Every time I try to exercise I'm completely down. Nothing works - not even very slow practice. My husband is training for triathlon and does four times more training than me. My diet is not wrong, I have enough vitamins and enough sleep. So what else?

The only way is probably a longer rest. So sad........ because I love swimming so much and I'm so happy in the pool.

I don't want to see another doctor. They all tell me the same thing. You are o. k . and that's it.

@haschu33: I read the report you mentioned. I think it MUST BE OVERTRAINING. I have no other solution.

Thank you to all.
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  #20  
Old 11-10-2011
arunks arunks is offline
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Hello Petra.I am not a medicine expert and this is just my opinion.I feel when the conventional medicinal approaches are not working we need to adopt alternative ways.In your exercise routine do you include Yoga or other exercises of these types.
I have my own experience where the doctor diagnosed me with back pain and sciatica and the traditional medicine did not work for me.I switched on to Yoga and ever since I have not seen it reoccurring.In fact I have become more flexible and this gives a lot of energy to me everyday I practice it.

Look at these links.
http://www.yogajournal.com/for_teachers/2581
http://www.yogabasics.com/learn/yoga-for-fatigue.html

Hopefully you get the idea.It may take a while before you start to see the complete effects but I am sure you will start to feel a difference once you start practicing it.

Let me know your thoughts.

Arun
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