A ballistic recovery pulling you forward

[Zenturtle]

Why is it that adding a ballistic recovery and entry can feel like your entering asrm is pulling you forward?
We are talking about feelings, perceptiions, you get when going from a more gentle and deliberate arm entry to a more ballistic arm recovery, throwing the arm over and in.
The things you feel most, are the differnces between former actions of the muscles and the new, fresh way of doing things.
Whats one of the problems of most swimmers?
Starting to pull too fast, before they have setup their catch and stable connection of that anchor to the body.
Then small position muscles in the shoulder get overwhelmed and the whole stroke goes downhill in no time.

Or better explained in the article mentioned in another thread:

The advantage of the inertial positioning movement of medial rotation instead of a vigorous muscular action involves the size, nature and positioning of the muscles involved. The rotator cuff muscles are relatively small muscles whose main purpose is to serve as tendons to hold the head of the arm bone (humerus) into place in the shoulder joint.

Any emphasis upon these muscles to provide more than stabilization of the shoulder would invite early fatigue. Vigorous contractions of the other internal rotators which are also major adductors of the humerus, the latissimus dorsi, pectoralis major and the teres major, would be an ineffective recruitment of muscles at an ineffective angle of pull.

So, if you are used to overload small muscles at an ineffective angle off pull, the ballistic entry of the arm wiil help to unload these muscles and the inertia also will help to move the arm in a better angle earlier.
What do you feel now?
Hey, I feel less fatigue, less deceleration, and I go forward easier.
Feels like my arm is pulling me forward .....COMPARED TO THE WAY I WAS SWIMMING BEFORE.

Besides this, a ballistic arm recovery triggers the opposite low leg to support the accelleration of the arm, giving you a little diagonal push up at the rear, sending the arm over to the front of the other side, where it lands in the water, together with slightly sinking highside front bodyside (rear uo, front down) thats attatched to the sinking arm. This slightly downhill skate also gives the feeling of going for a free ride.
If you lead the swinging arm with the shoulder. bringing that shoulder over and forward, dragging the rest of the arm along, this also shifts more weight forward, which leads again to some extra downward skating at entry.
So, a lot of good things can happen if you synchronize that arm with the rest of the body, but the pulling you forward sensation is only the effect of a change in sensor output.

[daveblt]

Of course it's not just the arm ,it all begins with good hip rotation that triggers the arm movement .I don't have a ballistic recovery but it is enough to make you feel that you have a constant rhythm instead of a flat stroke .

Dave

[novaswimmer]

What is 'ballistic' arm recovery?

I read that arm recovery actually adds a backwards force to the swimmer
like an airbrake

the last 25% of the recovery should be accelerated

here v

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Triathlo...e-in-Freestyle

It seems Gary Hall Sr speaks about sprint swim (shoulder driven, last quarter of 200 m, etc).
Perhaps this style is effective for sprinting, but for longer distance, or relaxed swimming, it's not necessary.

Originally Posted by bujanglokal

It seems Gary Hall Sr speaks about sprint swim (shoulder driven, last quarter of 200 m, etc).
Perhaps this style is effective for sprinting, but for longer distance, or relaxed swimming, it's not necessary.

A ballistic arm recovery is not used for long distance or relaxed swimming, its not sustainable unless using a boyancy aid like a wetsuit and claiming to be swimming.

[Zenturtle]

this is a ballistic arm recovery at race speed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xatLImz5Odo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRO2o8x_7IU

and here on a recovery swim speed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhVX...Y#t=145.162539 (from 2 min 11)

You can also swim a bit halfway between normal high elbow recovery and straight arm ballistic style
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28V_U8zVLsk

If you really keep the hands relaxed and drive the arm up from core/kick/shoulder you get that strange hand flipping out the water style.

Originally Posted by Zenturtle

this is a ballistic arm recovery at race speed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xatLImz5Odo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRO2o8x_7IU

and here on a recovery swim speed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhVX...Y#t=145.162539 (from 2 min 11)

You can also swim a bit halfway between normal high elbow recovery and straight arm ballistic style
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28V_U8zVLsk

If you really keep the hands relaxed and drive the arm up from core/kick/shoulder you get that strange hand flipping out the water style.

That is pretty much my stroke that i arrived at after much trial & error, same recovery

the hand rights itself on the way over you just exit pinkie first at 5 & 7pm and let it go

interesting slight bent elbow on extention ready for catch i might try that

you can get a flatter stoke with less rotation using this recovery which is alot quicker edge to edge

[Zenturtle]

interesting slight bent elbow on extention ready for catch i might try that

yeah, it reminds you to hold a stable wing ready for catch. Just holding the pinky inline with the outher edge of the forearmarm already has has this effect on the arm extension.
Dont think it looks very streamlined, and Shela Taormina exagerates it too much I think, but it does make it easier to go to catch. Be carefull to hold it wide though. It gives also a tendency to steer too much to the midline.