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  #1  
Old 11-07-2014
Streak Streak is offline
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Streak
Default Shoulder pain

Yes, I have the dreaded "swimmers shoulder".

Appears to be at the rear of my left shoulder (supraspinatus muscle??).
If I dig my fingers into that area behind my shoulder it's quite sensitive.

You have all seen videos of my stroke which I linked below again. I think I am doing all the basics right to prevent shoulder injury except one. Non bilateral breathing.
From what I have read body rotation is important to help prevent shoulder pain.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnWjqENOdj4

As I only breathe to the right I am only getting that rotation for my right arm while my left arm suffers.

Is my thinking correct?

I have found a bunch of exercises to do to fix the problem but in the mean time I need to think more about the cause.

Do I need to force myself to start bilateral breathing or just try and rotate a bit more to my weak side?
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  #2  
Old 11-07-2014
borate borate is offline
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Bilateral breathing tends to even out the stroke, but it's not mandatory. The video doesn't reveal whether you swing your elbow/upper arm behind your back. Avoid that.
Instead, use just enough bodily tilt, as the hand exits, to allow the elbow to easily point to the side as it moves forward, ready for the spear.
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  #3  
Old 11-08-2014
Danny Danny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Streak View Post
Yes, I have the dreaded "swimmers shoulder".

Appears to be at the rear of my left shoulder (supraspinatus muscle??).
If I dig my fingers into that area behind my shoulder it's quite sensitive.

You have all seen videos of my stroke which I linked below again. I think I am doing all the basics right to prevent shoulder injury except one. Non bilateral breathing.
From what I have read body rotation is important to help prevent shoulder pain.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnWjqENOdj4

As I only breathe to the right I am only getting that rotation for my right arm while my left arm suffers.

Is my thinking correct?

I have found a bunch of exercises to do to fix the problem but in the mean time I need to think more about the cause.

Do I need to force myself to start bilateral breathing or just try and rotate a bit more to my weak side?
You may be right. Sometimes the problem can be caused because you start to sweep your arm back before you have rotated enough to get your shoulder up. If you're breathing on your right side, you may be rotating more to breath and you may not be rotating as much on the left side.

Try conciously waiting until you have rotated your body up on the left side before starting your stroke and see if it helps the shoulder. It might also help to try slowing your stroke rate down. Another thing you might try is to spear deeper on the left side. All of these things will feel like they introduce asymmetry into your stroke, but try them to see if they help. The breathing is already an asymmetry and you may be straining the shoulder in order to compensate for that.

Last edited by Danny : 11-08-2014 at 01:58 AM.
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  #4  
Old 11-08-2014
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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Cant we make a table where the pain location is linked to the possible stroke flaw?

My pain locations have moved a bit during swimming progress.
Now its mostly North East North West location on top of the humerus , The place where you bunp into someone with the shoulder on a very crowded street,
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  #5  
Old 11-09-2014
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post
Cant we make a table where the pain location is linked to the possible stroke flaw?

My pain locations have moved a bit during swimming progress.
Now its mostly North East North West location on top of the humerus , The place where you bunp into someone with the shoulder on a very crowded street,
Nice idea! How about what movement on dryland gives rise to the pain?

For instance, I get mine most keenly when I place my arm over the opposite shoulder and touch my hand to my spine and/or with the other hand then (GENTLY) ease my elbow close to my chest. I can also feel something when, from the arm being and palm at my side, I stretch it up and out. I get the paion just as it approaches the horozontal
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A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
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~ Aleksandr Popov
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  #6  
Old 11-09-2014
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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The idea might be interesting, but possible a lot of different flaws have the same effect.

I was a year totally pain free,, started to emphasize the push at the end more for a few sessions and suddenly pain appeared on both shoulders when lifting the elbow out the water and halfway during recovery.(at least symetrical..)
Its mostly related with lifting the arm halfway hanging between hip and shoulder standing on dryland.
Lifting arms above shoulders to extreme streamlined pushoff posture is not a problem att all.
Making a EVF gestures doesnt feel good, especially when done using a near centrleline hand entry.
During swimming some pain is noticable when arm is at shouder height (90 degrees) and arm pulling.
Adding more roll at this point releases the pain a bit, because it feels you have to pull less.

Started some slow swiming concentrating on a painfree handpath wich resulted in some nice aha moments which I can use when the the trottle can be floored agin.
(elbow lead recovery, slightly wider hand entry, better connection with bodyroll, slightly steeper/or contimuous hand entry, pinky first entry)

Last edited by Zenturtle : 11-09-2014 at 01:33 PM.
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  #7  
Old 11-09-2014
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Pot helping kettle here I know, but what you describe sounds to me like the classic injury arising from moving the arm behind the plane of the torso while rotating it. That would fit with the pain being released when you roll a bit. Do you do the "shrug" before you start exit/recovery? But as you say, many roads lead to the same/similar place.
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A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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  #8  
Old 11-10-2014
Danny Danny is offline
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When I try to understand shoulder problems in front of a mirror I usually have problems because the direction of gravity is different from when I swim.
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  #9  
Old 11-10-2014
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny View Post
When I try to understand shoulder problems in front of a mirror I usually have problems because the direction of gravity is different from when I swim.
Very true!

Still the information you can get (with or without a mirror) from finding what movement causes pain can be helpful I find, especially in finding what can help heal it on land, as opposed to avoiding it in the water.

I believe it's the case that shoulder injuries in swimming mostly come from recovery style.
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A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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  #10  
Old 11-10-2014
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Hi I'm on a silent train carraige so can't hear the audio but I think this is the video you might want to look at. (Coach David Shen)

If the elbow isn't on top of the water as you prepare the catch then shoulder pain often develops.

Learning to spear with the elbow already pointing towards the sky takes some practice as the body learns the position but once you have it down everything becomes easier and a lot of shoulder pain issues go away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6RTP-Sj5TI
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