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Old 01-23-2018
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Originally Posted by CoachBobM View Post
The only difference in the rules for turns is that breaststrokers and butterfliers are required to touch the wall with both hands on each turn, whereas in backstroke and freestyle the rule is just that some part of your body must touch the wall (which normally ends up being the bottom of the swimmer's feet as they kick off the wall). Being required to touch the wall with both hands is what makes it impossible to do flip turns in breaststroke or butterfly. But I have trouble imagining how a swimmer would do a flip turn in breaststroke without making arm movements that would violate the normal rules for breaststroke arm movements.
I will go with your take, it is slightly slower than flip turn but not a deal breaker. I think the breastroker should be allowed "free" underwater dolphin as flyers/freestylers, etc.
Current rules for backstroke, butterfly, and freestyle require that swimmers surface within 15m after the start and after each turn. What limit would you want to use instead? Currently there are no rules requiring breaststrokers to surface within a certain distance, though the rules on kicking effectively limit how far it makes sense to stay underwater.
I'm not expert enough to set the limit but I would think it needs to be shorten, I swim on 50m, some competition are on 50m but a lot of racing and training happens on 25m pools. 15m is a lot 3/5 of the length: too much especially on short distances.

I'm not sure what you mean by "'breathing/head out' pattern". The only rule in breaststroke is that some portion of your head must break the surface on each stroke cycle. That's actually less restrictive than the rules for backstroke, butterfly, and freestyle, which require that after surfacing, the swimmer must remain at the surface until the next turn or the finish.
I got that one wrong I thought the swimmer had to get the whole head (which happens anyway even at the slowest pace in racing /200m). The rules actually allow for some variations of the stroke on longer distances.

There's no question that the rules of breaststroke place a lot of restrictions on what a swimmer can and can't do with their arms and legs. Butterfly came into being because the rules for breaststroke were less restrictive and didn't prohibit doing an over-the-water arm recovery. But when it appeared that the classic breaststroke was going to disappear in competition, the rules for breaststroke were tightened and the new way of doing breaststroke (i.e., butterfly) was made into a separate event. The bottom line is that if you don't place restrictions on how breaststroke is done, it will cease to be the stroke that has historically been known as breaststroke.
Anyway I argue for the joy of arguing, the main issue let say when comparing breast to fly is in fact the underwater dolphin.
It is really tough to set rule for such a stroke that can be swum underwater without creating the level of exertion underwater dolphin does. The issue would solve itself on longer distances but on short distance the swimmer may hardly break the surface.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge :)
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