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  #1  
Old 04-04-2012
samruhi samruhi is offline
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samruhi
Default 25 meters 12 strokes

I am into my first month having bought the pdf file Perpetual Motion. I am 51 and like many others couldn't swim well so always avoided it. I have run a few half marathons and find myself wanting to do a half iron man but dread the swimming more than the other 2 diciplines. I knew that technique was the key so did a search online and found TI on youtube. Now I am addicted to the water trying to do all the drills not very patiently I must add.

My only measure as to how things are going is my strokes per length. This has come down from about 24 spl to 15 spl I am six foot. Now I know it is discouraged to hold your breath but because I haven`t perfected my breathing, I find if i do lengths without breathing it allows me to concentrate on the stroke and basically fly/glide along in 12 spl 11 if I glide the last meter and a half. It allows me to concentrate on my technique which is obviously still a work in progress. I get to the other end and I actually feel better than if I breathed every 4th stroke. I get the sense of effortless when I get to the other end and because of the low strokes and no breaths I am not really that fatigued. I should say that a month ago it was not even possible to do half a length on one breath. I should also say that i haven't even got to the chapter on the correct 2 beat kick. When I am gliding I do keep my legs streamlined but while I am stroking I know it is all over the place.

When i do concentrate on my breathing I can do 15 spl. As I rotate to air should I turn my head that little bit to look at my shoulder then take a breath. I stretch to air as I check my hand is on its rail, breathe then face back down and pull the patient hand as the other enters. I try to breathe with my mouth half in the water and seem to get the air I want but also swallow water. Should I just persist until i get used to grabbing air and prevent swallowing water.

If I am getting 12 spl without breathing does it mean that the fundamentals of TI are on track. I only hold my breath to practice but I must admit it feels good when you get to the shallow end and you can see your shadow on the bottom of the pool moving relatively fast past the pool tiles. It's like that perfect 300 yard drive you have hit straight down the middle of the fairway. It keeps you coming back for more. I never thought that swimming could be so enjoyable.

How ever I am puffed as many others on this forum doing just 50 meters breathing every 4th stroke. I think I need to build up distance but am limited by my incorrect breathing technique. Should I grab a finis snorkel and swim at 14 to 17 spl and clock up some meters after my drills. For me even though my goal is to have the most efficient stroke that TI can give me I think I still need a level of fitness to be able to apply an effective repetative stroke time after time.

Last edited by samruhi : 04-04-2012 at 09:06 AM.
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  #2  
Old 04-04-2012
Rupertdacat Rupertdacat is offline
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Default Emmett Hines addresses your question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by samruhi View Post
I think I need to build up distance but am limited by my incorrect breathing technique. Should I grab a finis snorkel swim at 12 to 15 spl and clock up some Ks after my drills. For me eventhough my goal is to have the most efficient stroke that TI can give me I think I still need a level of fitness to be able to apply an efficient repetative stroke time after time
Hi samruhi-

The following does a nice job (i think) of addressing your question:
http://www.h2oustonswims.org/articles/sucking_wind.html.

Rupe
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  #3  
Old 04-04-2012
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Default

Hi sanruhi

Congratulations on getting as far as you have. Twelve strokes for 25 meters is very good. My best yet is sixteen, although usually I am around the twenty mark. I am considerably slower at sixteen strokes than at twenty.

At the pool where I swim they do not allow snorkels, so, although I agree with rupertdacat that that would be a good idea, it would not work for me. What I have found does work to some extent is to breathe less frequently. In my ongoing efforts to learn comfortable bilateral breathing I have been experimenting with a variety of patterns such as:

1. Push off, take first breath to left after a count of five (before right hand enters the water for first full stroke), count five strokes and breathe to right on five, count five strokes and breathe to left on five and so on.
2. Do this substituting seven for five.
3. The same but with nine for five etc. until you hit a number of strokes that is uncomfortable. I feel that it is important not to hold your breath or cause any discomfort.

The normal pattern for bilateral breathing is every three, of course, but I seem to need time to prepare for the still somewhat unnatural feeling of breathing to the right.

I find I can quite easily breathe with two elevens, which brings me to the end of the length. It allows me to concentrate on breathing out gently and keeping a steady head position just as if I were wearing a snorkel. I have not tried this for longer than 25 meter repeats and doubt if I could sustain it over longer distances, but perhaps I'll try a 50 meter repeat or two today and see how it goes. The longest I have managed so far without discomfort is fifteen strokes, in which case I touch the wall before needing to breathe again.

In normal swimming ( in races for example) I breathe every two to the left.
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Old 04-04-2012
westyswoods westyswoods is offline
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westyswoods
Default Part Of It

Samruhi,

You know what you can do that is SPL's of 12-15. I would suggest to start working on the breathing. Don't get caught up in the low SPL's, as when you start on the breathing part all might go to hell in a hand basket. If you have an opportunity get some underwater video of you stroke with no breath, try for a full 25 yds/m. When you apply breathing to the stroke do the same and compare.

Start with the breathing it proves to be the most difficult piece of the puzzle for most of us.

Please let us know how it progresses.


Swim Silent and Be Well
Westy
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  #5  
Old 04-04-2012
samruhi samruhi is offline
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samruhi
Default great advice

Yes strokes per length means nothing to me its just a measure of where I am. I want to swim in a half ironman and there are no prizes for how many strokes you took to complete the swim leg although I love the idea of putting heart beats in the bank for the bike and run which is why I am at the pool daily.
I may have to invest in an underwater camera. When I was doing 17 to 19 spl 2 weeks ago I thought I was doing a beautiful TI stroke and to my disgust having filmed it from above with my patient wife it was embarrasingly horrible. No wide tracks, uneven recovery, too much splash da da da. From above it looked nothing like Ti but it was still 17 spl. So I went back to the drills laser beam hands wide tracks swimming with my fingers skimming across the surface steeper angle less splash entry and down came the strokes per length. I have yet to video these changes from above. I maybe still disgusted. I did have 3 guys watching me underwater when i went past them and saw them trying to mimic the stroke in the air. unusual to have an underwater audience lol I will video in the next few days as easter is upon us and the pool will be full.
I realize i am still a newbie and a long way from my goal ie able to swim 2 to 3 ks in open water. I hope I will be there in a year to do a quarter Iron Man in March 2013 and then a Half Iron man in November 2013. So hopefully I have allowed enough time to achieve this.

Obviously there is a flaw in my breathing technique if I can go lower with out breathing. I need to persist here as you say and get the breathing right. I will make this the focus for the next month and see how I get on. practice practice practice and more practice lol Loving the journey so far

Last edited by samruhi : 04-04-2012 at 11:40 AM.
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  #6  
Old 04-04-2012
westyswoods westyswoods is offline
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westyswoods
Default Right Path

Samruhi,

Sounds like you are on the right path, understanding practice, practice, patience and enjoying the journey. Fair warning, if you were disappointed with the above water video, be prepared for a stunning revelation of below water.

I have yet to see any below water video which is better than above.

Keep up the good work.


Swim Silent and Be Well
Westy
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  #7  
Old 04-04-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samruhi View Post
I realize i am still a newbie and a long way from my goal ie able to swim 2 to 3 ks in open water. I hope I will be there in a year to do a quarter Iron Man in March 2013 and then a Half Iron man in November 2013. So hopefully I have allowed enough time to achieve this.
No problem to meet your goal. Keep a log of your activity with hours from 1-100.

I bet by the time you get to 100 mindful swim hours you can swim 3k in open water non stop.

enjoy the water
Andy
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  #8  
Old 04-04-2012
samruhi samruhi is offline
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samruhi
Default Andy

Thanks Andy you have put such a huge smile on my face. I look forward to doing hours and hours of mindful swimming knowing my goals are achievable.

Cheers

Sam
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  #9  
Old 04-04-2012
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Default

It is generally accepted wisdom, in conventional swimming circles at least, that breathing always had a retarding effect on the stroke and that the secret of successful swimming is to make the breathing interfere as little as possible, by not lifting the head, not pulling too soon with the submerged arm, not rotating too much, not splaying the legs to counteract the rotation and so on. This is why sprinters, especially the 50 meter specialists, try to breathe as little as possible, because even with their finely honed strokes turning the head for air has a retarding effect. Very few 100 meter specialists restrict their breathing much, though, I think. They need the air.
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  #10  
Old 04-04-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Default

See attached PDF (it's zipped as file size restrictions are higher for zip than for PDF). Notes on breathign drills & nodding.
Attached Files
File Type: zip The Nodding Drill & Breathing.pdf.zip (61.7 KB, 178 views)
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