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  #1  
Old 10-20-2015
kalinma kalinma is offline
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I'm wondering what TI coaches think of the recovery demonstrated here at about 17:12. It's not the relaxed recovery of TI, but seems like it might aid rotation.

https://youtu.be/WTAF3OFhzdA?t=1031

What I "feel" as I watch the swimmer here is different from what I feel as I watch Shinji. It seems that the overhead swinging motion he uses would allow one to stay on one's side more easily than swinging the arm out from the body. Think I'll give it a try just to see what it's like, but I am curious about what TI coaches think about it.
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  #2  
Old 10-22-2015
daveblt daveblt is offline
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For the swimmer in this video this recovery seems to work for him ,however in general I can't see how this recovery is better than a relaxed hand right near the water on recovery . It would seem harder to balance this way with the weight of the arm straight over you.

Dave

Last edited by daveblt : 10-22-2015 at 02:43 AM.
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  #3  
Old 10-22-2015
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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I see this recovery a fair bit in the local pool and it always looks 'sticky'

The people using it end up with a dead spot in recovery as the arm comes out of the water. almost like ripping velcro off the surface.

Best thing to do with all these things is try it and compare.
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  #4  
Old 10-22-2015
tomoy tomoy is offline
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I think an advanced swimmer can do this pretty well and it can be very effective. It asks for very good lateral balance. Also, due to the amount of rotation that high of a recover usually creates, it would be hard to speed that stroke up.

Not a drunk driving test, but try to stand with your feet lined up perfectly, one in front of the other. Then take a few steps putting your heel directly in front of your toe. Most likely you will sense yourself trying to catch your balance, maybe waving your arms a little bit to stay on the line.

Stand with your feel shoulder-width apart and feel the stability. Walking from one foot to the next with your feet 4-6" apart gives you more stability than in a line. It also creates a rocking from side to side.

So that's the balance difference. Wider tracks are more stable so a swimmer wastes less energy trying to catch their balance in the water (all those extra motions). The wide recovery creates a natural rocking from side to side using the gravity of the outrigger recovery arm to help in rotation. Without that you burn muscle energy in turning yourself from one side to the next, either from the kick or the pulling arm.

I think the stacked shoulder, perpendicular recovery was popular a decade or two (or more?) ago. I remember overhearing a masters coach teach how much narrower you are in the water on edge. I think that's correct, however in watching over the years I've noticed that TI is moving to a 45-degree recovery instead of the perpendicular (90-degree) recovery.

Having said all that, this is a better front-quadrant, weight-forward recovery, than most beginning students have - who usually lead with their hands. With the straight arm recovery, the elbow is in front of the hand all the way up until shoulder level, so that's good for fore-aft balance.
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  #5  
Old 10-22-2015
Danny Danny is offline
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I don't say that this recovery is easy to do, but here is an example of someone who can do it at race speed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb1Supmb2TQ
I agree with Tomoy that swinging your arm so far away from your body and not losing balance seems like a real challenge
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  #6  
Old 10-23-2015
Danny Danny is offline
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On second thought, an extended arm recovery is precisely what is used in backstroke, but here the position of the shoulder joint is different. So I suspect that the balance issues come down to how much mobility you have in that shoulder joint. Old people (like me) have to swing the arm out to the side during recovery, and with an extended arm that can throw off your balance. On the other hand, if you are on your back, you can recover that arm straight over your shoulder, so you aren't torquing yourself sideways. I don't do back stroke, so I could be dead wrong about this. Would be interested in feedback from others.
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  #7  
Old 10-23-2015
CoachEricDeSanto CoachEricDeSanto is offline
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I played with straight arm recoveries back when it became really popular for sprinters. I found that it was much easier to feel the momentum of the pull powering the recovery and pulling my body forward on entry with a straight arm. I was able to achieve higher tempos with same stroke counts. Most importantly, I was then able to relax the arm to a standard TI recovery and maintain the feeling. So, I continue to use it as a drill to teach the inertial recovery. Some of my swimmers like the way it feels and stay with it.

What struck me about the original video was not the straight arm recovery, but the abrupt change from straight to bent before entry. Any benefits from a straight arm recovery are lost with that sharp motion.
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