Next stroke: Butterfly

[daveblt]

The palm faces down on entry but throughout most of the recovery the thumb and forefinger lead the swing of the arm until the moment all the fingertips touch the water .Once the hand enters the palm should then face out .


Dave

[Grant]

Originally Posted by tab

That's what I thought.

In TI freestyle we have the choice to insert the hand into the mail slot, nice and clean, very few bubbles. This does not apply to the butterfly? Your hand has to flop on top of the water or am I missing something.

This is something I am not clear on. I work at entering my arms softly but am told there is still some splashing. I dont know if it is possible to enter in a spearing fashion. To do so one would have to have the body in quite an above water position which would take alot of energy.
Thoughts?

[tab]

Originally Posted by daveblt

The palm faces down on entry but throughout most of the recovery the thumb and forefinger lead the swing of the arm until the moment all the fingertips touch the water .Once the hand enters the palm should then face out .


Dave

Interesting, it seems there could be some controversy in here some where. Does this effect the rotator cuff issue? I for sure have some problems with my right shoulder. It is work related, I don't see any issue so far with swimming and would not want to aggravate it. I do appreciate the theory behind how I have started and Dave's recommendation. I think it is just how I have always pictured it and seen it executed.

[needer]

I still have difficulty to get out of water to fly position and therefore I cannot bring my arms forward effortlessly. what should I do to fly easily and prevent fatige. I come out almost up to sholders and with great effort.

[azamy]

Needer,

I am not an expert on this but the guys I have seen who had the similar problem, their body position were more vertical in the water instead of horizontal. As in all strokes the body position and stream line is very important in butterfly. If you have a balanced and streamlined body position with a strong dolphin kick I think you can fly easily out of water in good shape with less energy.

Good luck with that.

[needer]

Originally Posted by azamy

Needer,

I am not an expert on this but the guys I have seen who had the similar problem, their body position were more vertical in the water instead of horizontal. As in all strokes the body position and stream line is very important in butterfly. If you have a balanced and streamlined body position with a strong dolphin kick I think you can fly easily out of water in good shape with less energy.

Good luck with that.

But I think I am in horizontal position even more than enough! here is my video:

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B1B...040WXB2eGMxQmc

[azamy]

I looked at the video, your body line has no problems and your kick looks nice and strong too. The problem as I noticed is your hands recovery under water, you recover them like you do in freestyle, in butterfly it is a bit different. I had to struggle for a long time until I could fly easily and the issue was hands recovery.

Here's a video I always used to learn the hands recovery, notice how this Olympian recovers her hands under water, this could be the key.

Good luck with that.

[needer]

thanks I will try to rectify it. but I myself thought there is a problem with timing as it is too difficult to me getting out of water

[Richardsk]

It looks to me as though your kick is coming too much from the knee rather than the hip. Also you seem to be entering your hands right in front of your head rather than in front of the shoulders.

have you tried the drill where you do three strokes with just a short scull with the hands and then one stroke with both arms, trying to get a perfectly clean arm recovery?

Have you got the Better Fly for Every Body DVD?

[needer]

Originally Posted by Richardsk

It looks to me as though your kick is coming too much from the knee rather than the hip. Also you seem to be entering your hands right in front of your head rather than in front of the shoulders.

have you tried the drill where you do three strokes with just a short scull with the hands and then one stroke with both arms, trying to get a perfectly clean arm recovery?

Have you got the Better Fly for Every Body DVD?

As for hands entry your right it happens. I do saw phelps video about butterfly and some other clips on the internet but not that one.
Firs of all, I need to make sure whether the problem is with my hand recovery or lack of getting out of water properly? kick or hand? or maybe timing.
then I can decide to do which drill...