looks like a video is on its way

[swimust]

10 seconds of quality showing the Shinji leg snap in a 12 SPL not slow pace: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHHOxBSeoFk&t=50s
When the wrist is in water, the first thing he does is cracking the knee. The leg action is to flick, not to "kick".
If you want to kick then please use your hip, why not... :)
Shinji does NOT kick. He flicks (snaps).
In short, the TI classic old workshops teach a different use of the leg. Its as simple as that Richardsk and Janos.

If you don't see a bent knee in the photo below then please visit an optometrist first thing in the morning :)
Photo taken from the video at the top of this reply. You cant create such a sharp angle at the knee by engaging the hip first. There is no time for that during the swim. Maybe not a competitive swim kick, just a Shinji flick. Its not a fluke ;)

[Mike from NS]

Thanks Charles for this. You've given me lots to work on which I'm sure will help lots. On the way out the door right now (and late as usual) so I'll digest your suggestions more fully later today. From a quick read through, I think you may be suggesting some vertical kicking - which I do from time to time. I'm anxious to get back and read through your post more carefully. I appreciate your input.
Thanks
Mike

[Janos]

Swimunt, thankyou so much for that jpeg. I can now delete video files of Thorpe etc, and clear shelf space by throwing away books by Terry, Hines, Maglischo etc. The answer is in the pic. Toe flicking is the future. :-)

Janos

[CoachJohnB]

Originally Posted by swimust

10 seconds of quality showing the Shinji leg snap in a 12 SPL not slow pace: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHHOxBSeoFk&t=50s
When the wrist is in water, the first thing he does is cracking the knee. The leg action is to flick, not to "kick".
If you want to kick then please use your hip, why not... :)
Shinji does NOT kick. He flicks (snaps).
In short, the TI classic old workshops teach a different use of the leg. Its as simple as that Richardsk and Janos.

If you don't see a bent knee in the photo below then please visit an optometrist first thing in the morning :)
Photo taken from the video at the top of this reply. You cant create such a sharp angle at the knee by engaging the hip first. There is no time for that during the swim. Maybe not a competitive swim kick, just a Shinji flick. Its not a fluke ;)

Are you saying that Shinji's "toe flick" comes from bending the knee, not from the hip and weight shift?

[CoachSuzanne]

Originally Posted by swimust

10 seconds of quality showing the Shinji leg snap in a 12 SPL not slow pace: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHHOxBSeoFk&t=50s
When the wrist is in water, the first thing he does is cracking the knee. The leg action is to flick, not to "kick".
If you want to kick then please use your hip, why not... :)
Shinji does NOT kick. He flicks (snaps).
In short, the TI classic old workshops teach a different use of the leg. Its as simple as that Richardsk and Janos.

If you don't see a bent knee in the photo below then please visit an optometrist first thing in the morning :)
Photo taken from the video at the top of this reply. You cant create such a sharp angle at the knee by engaging the hip first. There is no time for that during the swim. Maybe not a competitive swim kick, just a Shinji flick. Its not a fluke ;)

It's a wave and you're picking out the mid point. it starts from his hip and is a dynamic motion.

[CoachJohnB]

Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne

It's a wave and you're picking out the mid point. it starts from his hip and is a dynamic motion.

To quote the tootsie roll commerical, "...the world will never know"

[swimust]

Originally Posted by Janos

Swimunt, thankyou so much for that jpeg. I can now delete video files of Thorpe etc, and clear shelf space by throwing away books by Terry, Hines, Maglischo etc. The answer is in the pic. Toe flicking is the future. :-)

Janos

haha... it all depends on what technique you want to swim.
and if Terry called it a "toe flick" and not a "power kick" as you do, then who am I to argue with him? If you are searching for a "power kick" in the Shinji toe flick that's on you, its not my problem. :)

P.S. - the last I checked, TI swim is NOT a competitive swim aka Thorpe. Just a reminder that Thorpe does not swim TI style :)
potatoes, tomatoes...

[swimust]

Originally Posted by CoachJohnB

Are you saying that Shinji's "toe flick" comes from bending the knee, not from the hip and weight shift?

what does "toe flick" has to do with weight shift? who needs a gentle toe flick if you already have a big weight shift? are you saying that "toe flick" comes from the glide?... ;) (joking)

you are correct. the world will never know... until it learns Japanese! :)
(I am not Japanese. wish I could read the written TI Japan stuff)

[Janos]

Tell that to Terry before his next race! You should become a student of TI rather than a Shinji groupie. If you did, you would know Thorpes hip driven freestyle stroke with six beat kick is one of the finest examples of the style. Acknowledged by people much more authoritive than you or I.

Janos

[swimust]

Originally Posted by Janos

Tell that to Terry before his next race! You should become a student of TI rather than a Shinji groupie. If you did, you would know Thorpes hip driven freestyle stroke with six beat kick is one of the finest examples of the style. Acknowledged by people much more authoritive than you or I.

Janos

Ok, just two things in reply:
1) Thorpe is using the legs themselves to get propulsion. That's not what TI swim does.
2) If Terry changed the Shinji kick name from "leg snap" to "toe flick" then there must be a reason for that. A flick doesn't generate power.

I never said that "competitive swimming is wrong". I said its different. If you want to mix between techniques that's up to you. I am not doing that.