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  #41  
Old 04-01-2013
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dprevish View Post
Coach Bill and all,

I must give you a full scoop as I've mislead you all. I had just read the last post from Coach Bill about a half hour ago and decided to put the proof to the pudding. I called my wife into the room and told her I wanted her to log the push ups that I could do in 20 min. After the first few I was told to stop as she said I was not locking my elbows; she was right. She actually had to video me to let me see. Prior to today I was busting out the 7-800 by myself as part of my P90 core and ab training three days a week. I would usually start the first set counting about 190-200 and as far as the time in push up, was about 2 / second. That should have been my tip off. I was shocked when I saw the video.
So...I had her reset the timer, gave myself a short 1 min. break and then told her to hit the start and time 20 min worth.
The first set was only 89 and then the last part of the 20 min. I could only rack up a total of 286. Those were full push ups (my wife made sure!)
Amazing the difference that I did not know.
Anyhow...I feel humbled...and also pretty pumped (just downed a bit of protein)!
Anyway, sorry to have steered in the wrong direction. You are spot on about the first 100. The other sets got progressively smaller as you can see.
Your wife sounds more helpful than my 2 year old. I started my tabata test yesterday and did 25, 25, 19 and then got sat on. Game over.
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  #42  
Old 04-01-2013
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hi Andy and deprevish,

was it just an isolated test you did, or did it affect your swimming afterwards (1 or 2 days)?

Regards,
Werner
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  #43  
Old 04-01-2013
dprevish dprevish is offline
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Andy,

Yes, I remember the toddler days myself, the added weight of a kid on your back changes the exercise just a bit!

Werner,

I don't know for sure, but I think that that it's negligible when I swim after such a workout. It may make for some sore muscles, but does not inhibit my swimming that I can tell. Like I had mentioned before, it's just part of core work to keep me stable in the triathlon training that I'm doing.
I seldom get sore when I'm done swimming even for an hour or two except for the traps ; maybe that is an indicator of lack of a good catch technique??
Or maybe I need to join the Masters again as I was in a couple years ago, that was a good thrashing. Not much here in south central WY along that lines.
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  #44  
Old 04-01-2013
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hi Dave,

Quote:
I seldom get sore when I'm done swimming even for an hour or two
This is really enviable (for me at least)! I swim 30-45min quite slow to hold my wretched Stamina.

Regards,
Werner
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  #45  
Old 04-02-2013
dprevish dprevish is offline
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Werner,

Once I achieve the "perpetual motion swimming" that I am striving for I may feel more of a burn an soreness afterwards. I found it in running and it's a great relaxer, somewhat of an equilibrium achieved between effort and pace. The feeling that you can go on for miles.
I think when I get dialed in on breathing right again it will turn into this; hoping so soon at least. It seems to be a bit of a challenge making the transition to breathing in good TI form.
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  #46  
Old 04-03-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesCouturier View Post
OK.


So. Far from being perfect. But you can already notice the TI catch shape, ie made of a simple spear. This isn't what I wanted her to do. It was her answer to my requests, and I was cool with it (as it immediately resulted into a much better arm alignment). That stroke was too high for her, natural SR being more in the low 50. But time speaks for itself: 3:30 for 200m.
Yes, it's very much better than in the before and you did a fantastic job in such a short period of time.

I would like to suggest on your next opportunity that you shift focus to a proper recovery with elbow leading...this will open up the lats which are really never opened and never properly accessed here.

The elbow remains bent and the forearm appears to enter in a "blocking" motion, as if you were defending yourself from a blow to the head with your forearm. The subsequent extension is simply sweeping to the side and pressing down.

Were she my student, I'd take the rate back down to 50 ish SPM, and work on her recovery and entry, while keeping core engagment between hips & shoulders as this will set her up for continued improvement on her pull.

Good work Charles, keep up the good case studies and descriptions!!
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  #47  
Old 04-03-2013
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Charles,

I had a little thought pertinent to this thread yesterday after my first swim in ages.

You were wondering why elite swimmers struggle to swim as slowly as most people swim at max pace, so I tried to think of a similar situation and I found one.

Paper aeroplanes. If someone gave you a competition winning glider and asked you to throw it only 15 feet it would be very hard, just as hard as trying to get a child's first effort to fly at least 15 feet.

So somewhere in your question aerodynamics or for us hydrodynamics are a large part of your answer. So my thought for the day next time will be, if my swimming profile was a paper aeroplane, what would it look like? :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsjdGLwZ1a8
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  #48  
Old 04-04-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
Yes, it's very much better than in the before and you did a fantastic job in such a short period of time.

I would like to suggest on your next opportunity that you shift focus to a proper recovery with elbow leading...this will open up the lats which are really never opened and never properly accessed here.
What do you have in mind exactly here Sue? Targeting what's happening on hand entry by better shaping arm recovery?

I donno, I agree of course. But she has no control once the hand enters. She paddles laterally, etc. She's a huge sculler. At 1.4, she pulls as large as a breaststroker.

And besides, I donno. I may rather trade for straighter recovery in her case I'm not sure yet.

Good point though, I'll keep this in mind as an option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
The elbow remains bent and the forearm appears to enter in a "blocking" motion, as if you were defending yourself from a blow to the head with your forearm. The subsequent extension is simply sweeping to the side and pressing down.
Yeah exactly. That truly pissed me off as we couldn't undo this (in 60min). So I fear she's back to square 1 next time I see her.

I'm definitely going to settle this dryland though. In other words, there will be a recovery dimension to part of the solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
Were she my student, I'd take the rate back down to 50 ish SPM, and work on her recovery and entry, while keeping core engagment between hips & shoulders as this will set her up for continued improvement on her pull.
I donno, I want a clean hand/arm entry then clean catch pull through. Imprinting you call that? That's urgent now, this has to change within the next 2 weeks. She has to put mind to it, lots of mind. Arrrgggrrrr.... Shouldn't take forever.

Sorry for the style of coaching, that's a student part of our tri program, so this is not your usual client/coach relationship lol
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  #49  
Old 04-04-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Charles, I see/sense your frustrations.

maybe I can make a video to demonstrate what I mean or maybe I already have.

you need to separate the stroke from the recovery /entry. She is sculling because she is "stroking" and that is interfering with her brain's abilitity to change the entry portion.

She's blind to changing the end of her entry becuase she thinks she must scull as part of her stroke.

I my recovery lessons we might cover swing skate & swing switch. When those are correct it eliminates most of the scull at least form the midline to the extention. There may still remain an outsweep but it's a start!

I have made several videos while I was in Kona. I'm sure one or two address this.
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USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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  #50  
Old 04-04-2013
craig.arnold@gmail.com craig.arnold@gmail.com is offline
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Hi Charles,

Big improvement obviously from first to second.

I think you can help her here with one of the platforms Terry talks about. Visualization - simply getting her to imagine a good spot to push her hand to, like a "target" hanging in the water at 45 degree angle (adjust as necessary but she won't hit 45 degrees because her instinct is to go flat).

Every stroke concentrate just on hitting that target with her fingertips. Then don't stroke, but rotate through the core to the next target. Make that her ONLY focus point for a number of lengths, then alternate that focus point with simply swimming.

If she's an athlete she'll have no trouble maintaining a SR in the 60 region.

I will make another post which refers to your first post in the thread.

Regards,
Craig
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