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  #1  
Old 04-11-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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swimust
Default hole in one!

1) LATERAL hip roll into weight shift on the spearing hip. Keep anchoring all this time! - until today I was accelerating the stroking arm during the hip roll phase! that was bad!
2) When you feel the body weight lying on your spearing hip, its time to start the torso twist and the arm acceleration!

SWIMUST SAYS ITS TRIVIAL!
3 years of hard work finally paid off. The swimust donkey managed to teach himself just by watching videos. thats crazzzy! :)

summary so simple:
hip roll & anchor - torso twist & accelerate. finally !!!

now where have all my lost brain cells and hair gone in the last 3 years?... just asking. Some here will say I never had too many brain cells anyway :) I totally understand and I apologize for all my nonsense. It was all just a part of the learning curve :)

P.S. - slow 9 SPL on 25 meters no problem. Normal pace 16 SPL after an open turn (not milking the push off the wall) and can easily turn into 14-15 SPL with just a bit slower SR. Effortless 12 SPL at a "faster than slowest" pace.
What a radical change of understanding in just one day !!!
It all makes sense now. I.E. - The lateral hip roll of both hips in the Shinji dryland drill video.
Thanks for the fish! This donkey is turning into a dolphin :)
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Last edited by swimust : 04-11-2013 at 11:24 AM.
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  #2  
Old 04-11-2013
wentod wentod is offline
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wentod
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Swimust, I follow all your posts because you are a gold digger and I hope you'll find some nudgets...
Now if you can cross the pool with 12 SPL in the 1.3 sec tempo like Shinji (even a 1.4 tempo would be fine) , I must consider you have found his secrets and am eager to watch a video of your swimming.
Could you elaborate more your findings?
Shinji talked about the underwater finish (acceleration) of the wrist which I think is very important. Are you performing such thing AND finishing with the torso twist?
I'm wondering also about the Shinji's second secret: his recovering elbow is almost vertical and though doesn't make his body sink. Any insight?
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  #3  
Old 04-11-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2011
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swimust
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wentod View Post
Swimust, I follow all your posts because you are a gold digger and I hope you'll find some nudgets...
Now if you can cross the pool with 12 SPL in the 1.3 sec tempo like Shinji (even a 1.4 tempo would be fine) , I must consider you have found his secrets and am eager to watch a video of your swimming.
Could you elaborate more your findings?
Shinji talked about the underwater finish (acceleration) of the wrist which I think is very important. Are you performing such thing AND finishing with the torso twist?
I'm wondering also about the Shinji's second secret: his recovering elbow is almost vertical and though doesn't make his body sink. Any insight?
Hi, :)
Here we go. It makes me feel good explaining what I understand and to make a repetition of the stuff. I can only hope I am correct. It would be great to have some feedbacks from people who actually had coaching from Shinji... I am only guessing from videos and comments and trying.

Today was the first day that I used my new understanding, so all my numbers are new and may change. I totally changed the whole swim from yesterday. It sounds dodgy and not trusty of course but that's how it goes and I felt for real today. not for the first time... I can only hope its real. I did 9 SPl in the slowest possible way, that's not a big deal. you can milk each stroke if you swim the slowest that you can. Don't get excited by this number. But, I was excited about how easy I achieved 12 SPL in just a bit faster pace, and 14,15,16 few times effortless.
I didn't measured times, just SPL. I guess I was slower than the times you mention above (the stroke rates SR). I am still far away of Shinji's speed. Just my first day with a new technique. It may sound stupid and dodgy, I repeat myself again.

About technique:
Its great to reply to straight questions. here goes:
1) I do the "the underwater finish" for a long time and I master that. This part was "nailed" in my swim long time ago.
2) "torso twist" - I had big problems with finding and understanding that. both the "how" and the "when". I watched the Shinji dryland clip where he shows the torso twist without twisting his hips (before the end of the clip), and I tried to imitate a similar move of the torso. I couldn't really master that without doing a proper hip roll which happens before the torso twist. Today I figured out everything (I hope!), and connected the pieces. I said it before in other occasions, take it or leave it.
I now know the timing of torso twist for sure, still not sure about how to twist but what I tried worked. It maybe lateral twist sideways, or diagonal from "spearing shoulder" to "stroking hip". I will see, but I got real big propulsion in both ways! - you can read my top lines in the top post and see when I start the torso twist.
3) "vertical recovering elbow" - happens because his arm is bouncing off the water after the underwater snap. he is able to use the water pushing his arm and shoulder forward. he just redirects the push of the water into getting a high vertical angle of the upper arm. high upper arm means high elbow. what you see in video. he gets vertical upper arm by aiming the shoulder in the right direction. he just "points the shoulder". he already has the power from the water, remember?.. he doesnt need to use muscles to move the shoulder. it bounces from the water, and he just redirects the power of the water that comes into his shoulder.
-----------------
that answers your questions.
my new insights from today are two critical ones:
1) hip roll straight into weight shift on the hip of the spearing side. cant swim without it. I wait patiently to the body weight to lie on my hip and only then I start the torso twist.
2) keep the anchoring of the stroking arm until this weight shift is finished. "do not accelerate yet..."
If I follow these two rules then the rest is easy for me.

Just first day. You cant expect me to be fast and smooth yet, but the SPL are correct. I managed 12,14,15,16 easily. the 9 SPL was while milking the time and exploiting every stroke. I don't count it as so important. its important just mentally. the mental aspect is valuable after many frustrations and failures.
how I felt physically during the swim and the propulsion per stroke is what counted for me. that's what encouraged me.
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Last edited by swimust : 04-11-2013 at 04:10 PM.
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  #4  
Old 04-11-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wentod View Post
if you can cross the pool with 12 SPL in the 1.3 sec tempo like Shinji (even a 1.4 tempo would be fine)
these numbers are amazing numbers, very hard to achieve for beginners and others as well. its my first day, remember? ;)

12 x 1.4 = 19.8 seconds per 25 meters including the 3 seconds push of the wall.
That's 13 minutes and 12 seconds per 1KM. Around 20 minutes per 1500 Meters. "in my dreams"...
Make me 30% slower than that and I will be happy for now :)

My nerves tell me I was doing the 12 SPL on about 1.6 seconds SR, maybe even slower but its great for a first day.
Would be GREAT if I did it on 1.6 SR !! that's 22.2 seconds per 25 meters lap with push off. I wish !! such an under 15 minutes per 1KM is a big 'wow' for me. Even 2.0 sec tempo on 12 SPL is good. this 18 minutes per 1KM is ok. its all relative...
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Last edited by swimust : 04-11-2013 at 04:16 PM.
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  #5  
Old 04-11-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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swimust
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wentod View Post
Swimust, I follow all your posts because you are a gold digger and I hope you'll find some nudgets...
I have also posted a lot of embarrassing s...e on this forum. Thank god that the good admins understood that I have no bad intention and it "just happens".
donkeys are ignorant and stubborn..
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  #6  
Old 04-12-2013
wentod wentod is offline
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wentod
Default Shinji's secrets

Swimust,
You said you found the Shinji's ultimate secret and timing : “ hip roll & anchor - torso twist & accelerate “
BUT you can see in the attached Pic1 that Shinji's torso is not twisted when he finishes his stroke,
The torso twist obviously occur later when his recovering elbow points to the sky: see Pic2 (upper arm angle at 80° and hips plan at about 50°).
I suppose the underwater finish energy allows the twist and the quick recovery. The twist might acts like a coiled spring ready to deliver all its potential energy in the spearing coming next (?).
Any comment?

Pic1-Stroke Ending.jpg

Pic2- Twist & Recovery.jpg
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  #7  
Old 04-13-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 832
swimust
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wentod View Post
Swimust,
You said you found the Shinji's ultimate secret and timing : “ hip roll & anchor - torso twist & accelerate “
BUT you can see in the attached Pic1 that Shinji's torso is not twisted when he finishes his stroke,
The torso twist obviously occur later when his recovering elbow points to the sky: see Pic2 (upper arm angle at 80° and hips plan at about 50°).
I suppose the underwater finish energy allows the twist and the quick recovery. The twist might acts like a coiled spring ready to deliver all its potential energy in the spearing coming next (?).
Any comment?

Attachment 383

Attachment 384
great 2 pics. they are great because they show what you don't understand yet in the Shinji swim. In pic no.1 you are showing me a moment when his forearm is still in water. That's before the underwater snap has finished. When the snap is finished later (after this pic), the torso is in higher position in a bigger vertical angle than what you see in pic no.1.
In your first pic, he is still twisting the torso upwards and it will get even higher when the wrist reaches the water surface. Watch it in slow motion (maybe in other video) and you will see the differences in his body position between "elbow in air" and "forearm in air". Find his "recovery" video. It shows it there in slow motion.

in second pic he already moved the shoulder blade forward after the forearm got in same lateral line with the upper arm during the recovery. the arm drops down. the torso position is the same as the one that started the recovery. He keeps the same body vertical position that he achieved when he finished the underwater snap (before recovery).

No one told me all that, just hard work, and now others can just read and use it. I want a pay :)
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Last edited by swimust : 04-13-2013 at 12:49 AM.
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  #8  
Old 04-14-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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right, my "progress"...

2 days with no swim, went to the pool today. I was "torso twisting" before "arm accelerating". my brain should focus on the arm after weight shift, not on the shoulders... so I believe now...
just watched the "tempo control" video. after 35 seconds I could see everything clearly.
weight shift fast "just enough near the spine", and then NO torso twist but arm acceleration! I was a robot 2 days ago and wasn't aware of that.
the accelerating arm tells the torso to twist according to its needs !!! not the other way around.

just video watching after a fruitless session in the pool. I guess that when the brain understands things well enough, he then can learn more and add, and get awareness just by watching a video. a kind of repetition and a better understanding and better awareness.

I still have a lot of work. just 3 days ago I found this new understanding. so, I think I swim the Shinji style for only 3 days. "so far so good".
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Last edited by swimust : 04-14-2013 at 10:54 AM.
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