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Old 12-26-2013
nurledge nurledge is offline
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Default how long to master bilateral breathing

Dear coaches, swimmer brethren,

How long it would take for one to make non-preferred breathing side to be as
good or comfortable as the preferred one. i have dedicated about 7-8 sessions to focus on bilateral breathing. i felt like i have achieved about 60-70%. Is it common like this or it is the time to get professional help. Please share your experience. Thanks.
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Old 12-26-2013
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Originally Posted by nurledge View Post
Dear coaches, swimmer brethren,

How long it would take for one to make non-preferred breathing side to be as
good or comfortable as the preferred one. i have dedicated about 7-8 sessions to focus on bilateral breathing. i felt like i have achieved about 60-70%. Is it common like this or it is the time to get professional help. Please share your experience. Thanks.
Hi Nurledge,

Once you've established good balance and stroke symmetry, breathing bilatterally should be routine. Have you gone trhough the breathing nod progression (in o2 in h2o dvd)?

Stuart
MindBodyAndSWIM
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Old 12-26-2013
nurledge nurledge is offline
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Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
Hi Nurledge,

Once you've established good balance and stroke symmetry, breathing bilatterally should be routine. Have you gone trhough the breathing nod progression (in o2 in h2o dvd)?

Stuart
MindBodyAndSWIM
Thanks Coach Stuart. Yes, I continue doing drill based on o2 in h20 including breathing nod. i agree it is related to balance or body position. I just received a replacement of underwater camera. i should be able troubleshoot soon.
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Old 12-27-2013
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Thanks Coach Stuart. Yes, I continue doing drill based on o2 in h20 including breathing nod. i agree it is related to balance or body position. I just received a replacement of underwater camera. i should be able troubleshoot soon.
That's great to hear, it's an excellent DVD and recommend it to my students. The nod progression helps establish the timing (get it early, get it quick), maintain head spine alignment as chin follows shoulder to air; it allows swimmer to discover their stroke does not change to get air, as well as altering their stroke causes a breathing problem.

On your weaker side, alternate through the following focal points (just one at a time):

1. Spear extra wide on breathing stroke, e.g. spear extra wide with left recovery arm as chin follows right shoulder to air.

2. Bury forehead, chin high (one goggle above surf, one below)

3. Chin follows shoulder to air (chin does not push shoulder!)

If you keep finding more water than air you are over rotating causing body instability dropping a couple or more inches (use 1. to fix) and/or lifting the forehead dropping chin in the water (use 2. to fix) and/or late-long breath (use 3. to fix). We humans instinctively lift head and rotate more to breathe; it's counterintuitive to bury forehead and rotate less to get air. Hope that helps a bit.

Re: Video. To check breathing, rotation, spearing too narrow, symmetry - all you need is above surface *front* view - swim directly at the cam.

Happy Breathing and Swimming!

Stuart
MindBodyAndSWIM

Last edited by CoachStuartMcDougal : 12-27-2013 at 03:03 AM.
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Old 12-27-2013
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
... On your weaker side, alternate through the following focal points (just one at a time):

1. Spear extra wide on breathing stroke, e.g. spear extra wide with left recovery arm as chin follows right shoulder to air.

2. Bury forehead, chin high (one goggle above surf, one below)

3. Chin follows shoulder to air (chin does not push shoulder!)

If you keep finding more water than air you are over rotating causing body instability dropping a couple or more inches (use 1. to fix) and/or lifting the forehead dropping chin in the water (use 2. to fix) and/or late-long breath (use 3. to fix). We humans instinctively lift head and rotate more to breathe; it's counterintuitive to bury forehead and rotate less to get air. Hope that helps a bit. ...
I've been dabbling on the edges of this, discovering it in glimpses, so it's great to read it set out and explained so clearly. I find your insight that OVER-rotation causes a problem to be particularly valuable. Thanks.
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Old 12-27-2013
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I've been dabbling on the edges of this, discovering it in glimpses, so it's great to read it set out and explained so clearly. I find your insight that OVER-rotation causes a problem to be particularly valuable. Thanks.
Hi Talvi, Good to hear and thanks. Over-rotation is the primary problem for most swimmers having difficulty breathing. Recovery arm slips off the rails (spearing in front of head) body sinks a few inches, and problem snowballs into lifting head and pushing lead arm down to buoyant head for late or longer breath.

Here's a side view still (and wish had the front view) of a breathing example of the focal points listed above that may help too. The bow wave in front and chin trough or air pocket allowing swimmer to get an "easy breath" are a consequence of minimum (enough) rotation, balance, head-spine alignment, and timing (breathe early and quick).

Stuart
MindBodyAndSwim
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Old 12-28-2013
nurledge nurledge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
That's great to hear, it's an excellent DVD and recommend it to my students. The nod progression helps establish the timing (get it early, get it quick), maintain head spine alignment as chin follows shoulder to air; it allows swimmer to discover their stroke does not change to get air, as well as altering their stroke causes a breathing problem.

On your weaker side, alternate through the following focal points (just one at a time):

1. Spear extra wide on breathing stroke, e.g. spear extra wide with left recovery arm as chin follows right shoulder to air.

2. Bury forehead, chin high (one goggle above surf, one below)

3. Chin follows shoulder to air (chin does not push shoulder!)

If you keep finding more water than air you are over rotating causing body instability dropping a couple or more inches (use 1. to fix) and/or lifting the forehead dropping chin in the water (use 2. to fix) and/or late-long breath (use 3. to fix). We humans instinctively lift head and rotate more to breathe; it's counterintuitive to bury forehead and rotate less to get air. Hope that helps a bit.

Re: Video. To check breathing, rotation, spearing too narrow, symmetry - all you need is above surface *front* view - swim directly at the cam.

Happy Breathing and Swimming!

Stuart
MindBodyAndSWIM
I appreciate coach, with the focal point above i would nail this issue soon. here is my current breathing on the unfavored site (right). i felt i don't lift my head too much but the recovery hand is hurried and spearing off target.

http://youtu.be/eMn8VdtmBmo
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  #8  
Old 12-28-2013
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
... The bow wave in front and chin trough or air pocket allowing swimmer to get an "easy breath" are a consequence of minimum (enough) rotation, balance, head-spine alignment, and timing (breathe early and quick)....
I always thought that a bow wave was a function of speed. Now I'm wondering. I do find swimming with less rotation helps so it's a bit confusing (not being able to see myself - though maybe that's a blessing!).

One thing that is both delightful and a bit unsettling I find is that - with my goggle-eye above the water looking into the glare of reflected light and my goggle-eye u/w seeing clearly - it sometimes feels as if I'm breathing underwater!!
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A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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Old 12-31-2013
azamy azamy is offline
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One thing that is both delightful and a bit unsettling I find is that - with my goggle-eye above the water looking into the glare of reflected light and my goggle-eye u/w seeing clearly - it sometimes feels as if I'm breathing underwater!!
Talvi I am smiling seeing that and when I saw the time of your post it was before mine (the question I posted on breathing both goggles underwater). I am waiting for an insight from Coach Stuart on this.
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