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  #1  
Old 01-21-2013
Josefish Josefish is offline
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Josefish
Default strong hand entry

Dear coaches,

Do you think it's important to do a strong and clean (no splash) hand entry in order to rotate the body strongly and then causing more propulsion ?

I have noticed that Sun Yang put the hand into the water with almost no splashing but powerfully.

Comments will be appreciated

Jose
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  #2  
Old 01-22-2013
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Jose,

for me this is why we call it a spear, you're trying to catch the fish with your harpoon remember. No-one ever did that gently.
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  #3  
Old 01-22-2013
craig.arnold@gmail.com craig.arnold@gmail.com is offline
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I dunno Andy, I think this is the first time I've ever disagreed with you.

One of the final things Terry said to me at the Windsor workshop was that I was punching the water too much still, so since then I've been trying to make the recovery more relaxed.

A visualization: imagine you are playing a game where you have to catch eggs being thrown above your head at high speed. You need to keep your hand and arm relaxed so you don't break them, whilst still moving very fast to catch them. Then move forward with your body and put each egg in your pocket as you reach to catch the next one.

Taking the tension out of the arm dramatically reduces bubbles even at high stroke rates, so it's almost flopping in through the mailslot. I got this idea looking at some of the Olympic videos.
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  #4  
Old 01-22-2013
Josefish Josefish is offline
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craig.arnold,

I know the recovery has to be done relaxed , and get the hand into the water (mailslot) causing as little turbulences and bubbles as possible. But it doesn't mean you can't do it powerfully (watch Sun Yang video). In order to rotetate quicker and therefore giving some speed to the propulsion.

I may be wrong..... but I thing Andy was right

Thanks to both of you

Jose
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  #5  
Old 01-22-2013
azamy azamy is offline
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When I swim at higher tempos I try to make the mail slot entry smooth but as strong as possible, releasing as much power as I can from my lats not shoulders. I think the secret in Sun Yang's high DPS is that his entry is very strong.

Guys correct me if I am wrong.
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  #6  
Old 01-22-2013
Josefish Josefish is offline
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azamy,

I completely agree with you.

Jose
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  #7  
Old 01-22-2013
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig.arnold@gmail.com View Post
I dunno Andy, I think this is the first time I've ever disagreed with you.

One of the final things Terry said to me at the Windsor workshop was that I was punching the water too much still, so since then I've been trying to make the recovery more relaxed.

A visualization: imagine you are playing a game where you have to catch eggs being thrown above your head at high speed. You need to keep your hand and arm relaxed so you don't break them, whilst still moving very fast to catch them. Then move forward with your body and put each egg in your pocket as you reach to catch the next one.

Taking the tension out of the arm dramatically reduces bubbles even at high stroke rates, so it's almost flopping in through the mailslot. I got this idea looking at some of the Olympic videos.
Fast or strong, is there a difference? My tennis coach used to tell me when I was a young teen to not hit the ball hard, but to move the racquet quickly and then follow through.

Fast for me is a better way of thinking of it as it allows you to not have tension in the limbs, so I think we agree, relaxed and fast. Sun Yang's DPS comes from very forward anchor position followed by lightning quick snap phase. If you watch him from overhead (far left in the video) it reminds me of brooming the floor in the timing (sweep, sweep) he is also much much quicker than me in the hand out of the water to top of the spear stage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uncOBURz-6o
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  #8  
Old 01-22-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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The only downside I see to this is sort of theopposite of what we usually see. We frequently see an aggressive pull ot the point that it distorts the body's shape & position in the water. So easing back on the force & power actually creates a better interaction in the water

with the spear, yes, you can make it a faster movement but because there should be very little resistance to entering the water, it should not feel or seem "powerful". It's the wrong place in the stroke to think about being powerful.

Technically, yes more speed will equal more power, but the relative amount of resistance should be low. Apply your power elsewhere. :)

Suzanne's thoughts for the day.
__________________
Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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  #9  
Old 01-22-2013
Janos Janos is offline
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I agree with Suzanne, and the others who don't advocate an aggressive entry on recovery. Why create resistance in front of you? it goes against all the principles of hip driven freestyle. The arm is spearing forward at the same speed as you drive the stroke with your hip and torso, any faster, you are not in synch and you are diluting the power available to you.

Regards to all

Janos
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  #10  
Old 01-23-2013
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
The only downside I see to this is sort of theopposite of what we usually see. We frequently see an aggressive pull ot the point that it distorts the body's shape & position in the water. So easing back on the force & power actually creates a better interaction in the water

with the spear, yes, you can make it a faster movement but because there should be very little resistance to entering the water, it should not feel or seem "powerful". It's the wrong place in the stroke to think about being powerful.

Technically, yes more speed will equal more power, but the relative amount of resistance should be low. Apply your power elsewhere. :)

Suzanne's thoughts for the day.
I think I made an oddball post last year about the falkirk wheel in Scotland, huge power, low energy usage by balancing the forces on each side?

I had 14 people in my lane last night which was something of a record. I didn't do much of anything.
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