Pose Method vs. TI?

[scrummaster]

I've been working at the Pose Method for running. I also noticed that Pose has a swimming method. The Pose technique seems very 'scientific' to me vs. TI, which is more of an art.

Has anyone tried one vs. the other? Different approaches towards the same goal?

Frank

[haschu33]

I don't know Pose Technique, but the part on swimming that you can read on the website is not scientific at all, it is just opinion (and surely no art). Actually the reasoning given is quite flat and based on simplistic logic and conclusions on the observation of worldclass swimmers which are a little audacious for my taste.
It is quite clearly opposed against the TI approach, without naming it. Which is ok, of course, anybody has the right to do that.

Maybe it's better if you read the entire stuff, they offer. Maybe not.
And of course I don't know about the running and cycling stuff, that might be brilliant, I didn't read any of that.

That method did not awaken my interest.

[scrummaster]

I read the info on the site since it just happened to pique my interest. The prose on the site is kind of dense and hard to understand, so such pretense can sound pretty scientific sometimes. I then watched a YouTube video on it with some sculling drills--didn't look like much fun. :-).

[atreides]

Originally Posted by scrummaster

I've been working at the Pose Method for running. I also noticed that Pose has a swimming method. The Pose technique seems very 'scientific' to me vs. TI, which is more of an art.

Has anyone tried one vs. the other? Different approaches towards the same goal?

Frank

I looked at a couple of videos on this web site and wondered how anyone would ever "learn" this technique. He absolutely denies the role of hip drive and says that the propulsive force in swimming is due to falling out of support from one arm to another. He believes that body roll is a product of this and should be absolutely minimized. Hips will roll but should not be actively made to roll. The couple of videos I looked at offered an almost comical illustration of kicking and pulling. Although he used the term streamlining, he didn't illustrate what it meant in the video I looked at. His swimmng stroke also seemed to emphasize that propulsion occurred based on weight shifts onto an immobile lead hand. Is TL's spearing to the same point and hip driven rotation on top of that lead hand effectively the same thing as this guys "shoulder roll" on top of an immobile lead hand? I dunno.

Since TL has tried his theories on good swimmers and made them better and since non swimmers have become very good swimmers, I think I'll stick with TI. The Pose guy did have some interesting insights on shoulder injuries. He believes that too much rotation causes some of these injuries. Since I have had some shoulder problems, I wondered about this. But in retrospect, I think my problems originate from a lack of relaxation of my arms during the pull cycle. I have been so obsessed with executing proper EVF, I think I was tensing up my shoulders to do it. This weekend I concentrated on relaxing my arms and not worrying about the perfect catch so much. This seemed to help immensely.

The Pose guy is a Russian who sounds pretty smart. But until I see him doing some open water swims or until his version of Shinji shows up, I couldn't buy into it. Some of the things he says are right on. The kick providing very little of the overall propulsive force is well documented. But he says that you should just vary your kick ("kick little for long distances"). Before I implemented TI, a little kick meant my hips dropped resulting in a death struggle to the wall. How would the Pose guy correct that? Maybe his Biomechanical explanations have merit. But as a workable teaching theory there seems to be a lot lacking.

[shuumai]

I've watched POSE videos before. I didn't get a good feeling from them.

While not a specific method, I usually like watching GoSwim videos.

[AWP]

... and GoSwim guy Glenn Mills is a TI advocate I believe.

[shuumai]

Originally Posted by AWP

... and GoSwim guy Glenn Mills is a TI advocate I believe.

Well...sometimes I wonder if they are indirectly citicising TI. Though a many ways they seem to promote some TI ways. Don't know.

[elk-tamer]

I just use the pose method when I'm walking by the cute female life guards.

[Grant]

Glen Mills was associated with Terry back in the 90's. He split off from Terry to form his own organization GoSwim. From my observations he concentrates more on swimmers who are mostly interested in competing and incorporates more of the mainline approaches on how to get faster. Lately I note there is more reference to aspects that Terry has offered for years.
The approach I like is to cherry pick or take the pearls from any expert and see how they work for myself. Personally I would estimate that I get 80% of my insights from TI as well as a context to hold the whole swimming practice.

[scrummaster]

Originally Posted by elk-tamer

I just use the pose method when I'm walking by the cute female life guards.

Originally Posted by shuumai

I've watched POSE videos before. I didn't get a good feeling from them.

While not a specific method, I usually like watching GoSwim videos.

I like GoSwim (I've gotten some good ideas on drills) but it seems more geared toward 'pool rats' and competitive swimmers. And it seems that he makes money by marketing DVDs of eminent competitve swimmers.