How much do flip turns help you?

[scrummaster]

This guy, Duane Dobko always has some interesting statistics about swimming. He did some timing of his flip turns.
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http://www.dobkanize.com/how_much_do...turns_help.asp
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I'm fairly new to swimming and can't do a flip turn. I've always wondered if it's really worth the time and effort to learn--other than the fact that some say you haven't 'arrived' as a swimmer until you can do one.

Frank

[andreasl33]

Interesting. What they don't measure though is the effect air deprivation from the missing breath will have longer term, which could cancel out much of the advantage. While they argue that in short course pools, flip turns are more important, the air deficit will be even more pronouced.

[andreasl33]

However, this somewhat related article argues that the penalty for breathing more often is very small:

time lost per breath

This would suggest doing flip turns and taking care the oxygen deficit (if any) by breathing more often during the following length might be a good strategy.

Maybe for that reason, Terry suggests to take two breaths to both sides immediately before the flip turn in his Easy Freestyle DVD.

[PASA]

I find flip turns to be good for my back - curling into a tight ball then stretching out again in streamline. Also improves lung capacity over time since you have to hold your breath during the turn through breakout.

[ewa.swimmer]

I can do a pretty good flip turn but choose not to. The oxygen deficit is too much for me at my age (53). I am more efficient with a strong open turn then a longer steamline. My streamlining has to be much shorter when I flipturn because I need the air.

[Edd78]

I started working on my turns earlier this year in january, and I'm already happy with my open turn (I can keep up with flip turn swimmers). I'm still working on flip turn, but I have to say I find it pretty unpleasant at the moment (making me kind of seasick, and I find it hard on my lungs).
it's pretty useless when you practice in crowded lane because you always risk bumping into people who decide to push off when you flip turn.
I think it's not that important if you are a fitness or casual swimmer.

[Lawrence]

If only I had a dollar for every swimmer I've seen who is good at flip turns but terrible at freestyle!

Not saying don't bother with them, just that I for one would find the time better spent on stroke practice.

[Manofword]

In my 3 months working on TI, personally, I have come to the conclusion that I don't need flip turns. I do the side turn and it works just fine for me. I am training for an Ironman and won't really benefit from the "speed" of the flip turn. I'm not trying to be a speed demon, I'm trying to build endurance. There won't be any walls in the open water! I've also seen my share of good "flippers" who were thrashing and taking up to 30spl!

[PASA]

Originally Posted by Edd78

I started working on my turns earlier this year in january, and I'm already happy with my open turn (I can keep up with flip turn swimmers). I'm still working on flip turn, but I have to say I find it pretty unpleasant at the moment (making me kind of seasick, and I find it hard on my lungs).
it's pretty useless when you practice in crowded lane because you always risk bumping into people who decide to push off when you flip turn.
I think it's not that important if you are a fitness or casual swimmer.

Agree about the folks who push off as you flip - it's annoying and rude. Fortunately, I generally swim in a pool and at a time where there's usually not more than 2 per lane, so I usually have my own half of a lane to do my own thing in.

If flips are making you dizzy, try doing them very slowly and relax through them. You don't need to hit the wall hard. Just have your feet tucked tightly and close to the wall. This will allow you to push off hard and get some momentum for the return trip down the pool. As for air, take a couple of extra huge breaths as you approach the wall, then exhale through your nose during the entire turn. By the time you surface, you'll be ready to take another breath. I know, for racing it's a sin to breathe on the first stroke after a turn, but if that's what you need to do then just do it.

Of course, if the flip isn't your thing, then abandon it. Open turns are fine and what matters is your enjoyment and and stroke. I see plenty of folks at my pool who do flip, but then struggle swim down the lane. I'd rather have a smooth, effortless stroke than struggle swim.

[Grant]

Originally Posted by PASA

Of course, if the flip isn't your thing, then abandon it. Open turns are fine and what matters is your enjoyment and and stroke. I see plenty of folks at my pool who do flip, but then struggle swim down the lane. I'd rather have a smooth, effortless stroke than struggle swim.

I agree with the points you bring up in your full post. Just want to add that if one is mainly a pool swimmer the ideal would be, to be a smooth effortless swimmer and a smooth quick flip turner. The best of both worlds.
For those who want to master the flip turn Terry has some good progressions to follow and I remember being told years ago when I was floundering with flip turns being told a good way to mastery was to do a flip turn every time one needed to turn. Did this for a year and it greatly improved the quality of the turn. Now with info you can get from Terry and other swim sites and doing a flip every time mind set improvement/mastery is close at hand.