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  #1  
Old 05-27-2009
miro miro is offline
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Default Why I no longer do "Lung Busters" by Terry Laughlin

I think that swimming under water is one of the swimming abilities and I wonder why TI does not offer any program for learning healthy and correct underswimming. Swimming under water could teache and then use so called endogenious breathing which is very very healthy. In the scientific point of view it was discovered by russian doctor Genadij Gerasimov. His hypothesis says that a manīs body in case of oxigen deficity uses its reserves and produce its own oxigen, using free radicals. Russian biochemists Frolov, based on this hypothesis, invented a breathing device which is called Frolov breathing trenager. And Frolov says that if you breathe with endogenious breathing every day for enough time and if you start to practice this kind of breathing as a young man/woman you can live 160 years and you will be healthy all the life. Of course if you start at your 50īs you can also radically prolonge your lifespan. And I think itīs true. Mammals which have slow breathing cyclus (few number of inhale-exhale per time) live longer than humans, e.g. sea tortues, whales. In joga it is said that pranayama (yogaīs breathing) gives yogins long life (maybe yogins in recent times were inspired by animals like tortues). And first what you learn in yoga breathing is exhale as slow as possible. Ashtanga yoga by Pattabhi Jois uses slow Ujjayi breathing which is breathing through "close throat" while doing exercises. Frolovīs breathing trenager works in the way that you breathe through water, that is through resistance. So (under)water is a very suitable environment for endogenious breathing because you exhale to water, against resistance. In this way underwater swimming could be one of the ways that you can learn and use endogenious breathing which - I believe - gives you long life, maybe not 160 years, maybe less, maybe more. Tortues live more than 200 years, some yogins live more than 100 years with good health. So itīs time to bring this kind of breathing where it belongs: to water. Maybe it is challenge for Total immersion to connect endogenious breathing and swimming.
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  #2  
Old 05-27-2009
shuumai shuumai is offline
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The topic you brought up is interesting to me because I always think of myself as being less oxygen efficient than most people who don't have a known medical problem. heh

I'm familiar with the concept that mammals with slower heartbeats usually live longer. Like an elephant compared to a mouse. I never thought about the breathing though. I do know that if the heart rate is slowed, a person can go longer between breaths. Also, taking long, deep breaths can be relaxing and lower the heart rate.

I'm not sure exactly what a lung buster is, but I swim 25 yards underwater with fins. For me the purpose is to reduce the amount of air exchange needed by not wasting as much energy. To do that, I relax and work on better streamlining and more efficient propulsion (dolphin kicking). I also experiment with how much CO2 I need to release to stay comfortable.

I usually make it across, but not at first. When I do make it across sometimes I feel relaxed. Sometimes I feel an uncomfortable change in my lungs just before I surface. I never push it too far though.
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Old 05-29-2009
miro miro is offline
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Between breathing and hert rate there is a close relation. Yogins try to influence the work of their heart by practicing pranayama. When you breathe by endogenious breathing, your heart rate slows down. Besides your body temperature goes down (and there is relationship between average body temperature and lifespan), energie of cells rises 2 to 4 times, number of free radicals declines. I would like to emphasize that endogenious breating is not any breathing with holding your breath. You have to learn endogenious breathing and this process lasts several months. In endogenious breathing your body suffers by deficit of outer oxygen and your cells are forced to produce their own oxygen using free radicals. Manīs body is flexible. In the same way as you can change your movement patterns in water by drills you can teach your cells to breathe in a defferent way. Ashatanga yoga uses udjaji deep slow breathing during exercises, then your body has the lack of oxygen from outside and your cells switch to endogenious breathing. But while doing pranayama or ashtanga yoga you shouldnot feel any lack of air, you shouldnot catch breath after exhaling. I have read somewhere that your body switches to endogenious breathing when your exhalation phase lasts at least 60 to 65 seconds after only 3 seconds of inhalation and you can breathe in this way as long as you want without feeling any discomfort. I thing that a man could learn endogenious breating even in water and could do exercises using different breathing patterns with different health effects like in yoga. I practise yoga breathing while doing my yoga, so far do not use endogenious breathing in water, only sometimes try to swim under water as long as I can. However I would like to express some principals how to learn endogenious breathing in water while swimming analogycaly to principals of learning endogenious breathing on land:
1. Swim under water in a relaxed way. Use style which is not energetic very demanding.
2. Swim slowly at constant pace.
3. Inhale in 3 seconds, go underwater and swim in a relaxed way. Do not feel any discomfort. You shouldnot feel any tension.
4. Start swimming with the short time of exhalation - probably 7 or 10 seconds. It is individual. The princip is that when you go above water to inhale again, you shouldnot "catch air".
5. You have to keep your times of inhalation and exhalation the same during your course: for example inhale 3 seconds - exhale 10 seconds.
6. You have to progress very slowly: prolonge the time of exhalation by 1 second for at least 3 days.
7. You can start this swimming in 5 minutes course and prolonge this time by 1 minute for 3 days.
8. Swim in this way regurally, at least 5 times a week.
9. When you feel discomfort during these courses, lessen the time of exhalation and progress more slowly.
10. You can add to your swim speed after you reach exhalation time more than 65 seconds and your course reaches 1 hour.
After your body learned endogenious breathing, you can swim with this breathing even sevaral hour a day and I thing that you will live long beyond 120 years.
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Old 05-30-2009
shuumai shuumai is offline
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Default Dynamic Apnea?

This sounds like dynamic apnea. That is, swimming underwater across a pool with or without fins. (Hmm, they wear weights around their necks. I was wondering how they stayed level and submerged.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wqq_0FyuIA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO8bkqLQ-yU
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  #5  
Old 05-30-2009
zwrdl zwrdl is offline
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Default Notes from a nurse

First, there are too many variables to compare length of life across species. Even within species it is complicated. Take a look at this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15855403

and this:

http://www.uni-sz.bg/bjvm/vol9no3-01.pdf

Are we prepared to make a statement in light of the complexity of the studies of free-radical/metabolic processes that a specific type of breathing practice will extend our lives? I think not.

Second, practitioners of yoga have been working with the breath for thousands of years. Do they as a group have a longer lifespan than all other groups of non-practitioners? Not to my knowledge.

Finally there are no scientific studies which I have found that conclusively demonstrate a linear relationship of lifespan to average body temperature in humans. In fact, a lower body temperature with its potential concomitant slower metabolism, may have harmful effects:

http://hubpages.com/hub/Lower_body_t...tends_lifespan

So, feel free to experiment, and by all means record your progress and results, but if the only reason you are doing this breathing practice is to increase your lifespan, you'd be better off simply changing or tweaking your diet or doing yoga for the stretching and internal organ benefits.
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  #6  
Old 05-31-2009
shuumai shuumai is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zwrdl View Post
So, feel free to experiment, and by all means record your progress and results, but if the only reason you are doing this breathing practice is to increase your lifespan, you'd be better off simply changing or tweaking your diet or doing yoga for the stretching and internal organ benefits.
This reminds me of my counter point when someone tries--for some personal reason--to make living longer sound like a negative outcome of a good diet and exercise. I say, It isn't about living longer, but living better while we're alive. With that in mind, I've read about some bad outcomes from anything that strains the breathing process. The average way of breathing might not be great, but taking it to the opposite extreme might not be better for practical purposes. Learning to breathe while swimming is part of not practising struggle, yeah?

(My living better includes the blueberry muffins I just baked. With grape seed oil, at least.)

I did 25y underwater today. Near the end my lungs...tickled a little. I thought that was odd. Apparently my dynamic apnea wasn't so dynamic today since that was the only time I made it across.
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  #7  
Old 06-01-2009
miro miro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zwrdl View Post
First, there are too many variables to compare length of life across species. Even within species it is complicated. Take a look at this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15855403

and this:

http://www.uni-sz.bg/bjvm/vol9no3-01.pdf

Are we prepared to make a statement in light of the complexity of the studies of free-radical/metabolic processes that a specific type of breathing practice will extend our lives? I think not.

Second, practitioners of yoga have been working with the breath for thousands of years. Do they as a group have a longer lifespan than all other groups of non-practitioners? Not to my knowledge.

Finally there are no scientific studies which I have found that conclusively demonstrate a linear relationship of lifespan to average body temperature in humans. In fact, a lower body temperature with its potential concomitant slower metabolism, may have harmful effects:

http://hubpages.com/hub/Lower_body_t...tends_lifespan

So, feel free to experiment, and by all means record your progress and results, but if the only reason you are doing this breathing practice is to increase your lifespan, you'd be better off simply changing or tweaking your diet or doing yoga for the stretching and internal organ benefits.
Of course that a specific type of breathing practice will extend our lives.
Secondly to my knowledge yoga practitioners live longer.
Finally I havenot noticed any harmful effects on me.

So, I believe in something and you believe in something else. Who is right?

When a well-known Slovakian actress celebrated her 100. birthday (by the way she was very vital and gave parties round all the year) she was asked why she lived so long. She said that she hadnot drunk coffee, hadnot eaten meat, had done yoga etc. And someone asked her if it really helped. She answered: I donīt know but I believed in it.
My little comment: If she had lived in the way that was at her time accepted I think she wouldnot have celebrated her 100. birthday at such a good health.
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  #8  
Old 06-01-2009
Rhoda Rhoda is offline
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Well... Britain's Queen Mother lived to be 102 and she was a plump little thing who enjoyed gin her entire adult life. I think you either have the genes or not. Being wealthy helps.
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  #9  
Old 06-01-2009
shuumai shuumai is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhoda View Post
Well... Britain's Queen Mother lived to be 102 and she was a plump little thing who enjoyed gin her entire adult life. I think you either have the genes or not. Being wealthy helps.
Moderate alcohol consumption is known to be good for health. The general advice is, if you drink, drink with moderation. If you don't drink, don't bother starting. I think red wine is supposed to be the best. Anyway, kanpai (cheers) to the Queen Mother!

Note: I don't drink alcohol, but I'll raise a glass of water instead.
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  #10  
Old 06-02-2009
Grant Grant is offline
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As mankinds knowledge of our genetic makeup unfolds it is beginning to look as tho the old saying that "there is nothing we can do about what we have inherited" may be faulty.
That being said the issue of longetivity and lifestyle is still very valid. Studies of societies that have or had a greater number of centurians (100 year olds) than other societies had three common threads.
1. An active lifestyle.
2. A low meat diet
3. A nurturing life philosophy.
Live on.
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