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  #1  
Old 12-07-2012
rcrawf rcrawf is offline
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Default Elusive Hip Drive, Weight Shift, Fine Points

My question is, how do you know when you are successfully channeling, connecting core with hip drive and weight shift? Is there a feeling one should have in the mid-section (core)?

To quote Terry: "deriving as much energy as possible from the core and blending seamlessly with the overall stroke. On 2BK maintain tone in quads; minimize 'firing.' Use them mainly to connect weight shift to lower-leg lever."

Is there a word picture to help visualize this feeling of "deriving as much energy from the core as possible" or is it a matter of having all the other TI swimming elements working correctly, 2 bt kick, efficient pull/push, timing of kick, feeling the water with lower leg lever, patient catch, streamlined etc.? I hope I've expressed my question clearly.

Thanks, Rich
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  #2  
Old 12-07-2012
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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First of all, weight shifts shall not be confused with hip drive, as these are two seperate matters.

Hip drive can almost be seen in some video clips. It takes a well trained eyes to try and see weight shifts in a clip.

Hip Drives helps weight shifts, but these are two different matters. Interconnected, but different.

Improving in these two aspects should first be noticed in term of improvement in swim times.

Now, I will propose something that could be debated I guess. If you put weight shifts focus too early in your development as a swimmer, then chances are you won't feel it, or benefit from it.

Balance/streamline is so important, that if you're not good enough in these department, you may be using your body weight to swim (weight shifts), but that doesn't mean it will translate into more forward speed.

The implication of this last proposal is to the effect that you could improve weight shifts without any way of knowing this, if more important matters aren't addressed first.

A young swimmer that's barely able to hold 1:55/100m probably have other cats to beat than implementing weight shifts in my opinion; though that same person could greatly benefit from improving hip drive!

Please, do reply with your questions, as I feel that my answers will trigger other questions.
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  #3  
Old 12-07-2012
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesCouturier View Post
First of all, weight shifts shall not be confused with hip drive, as these are two seperate matters.

Hip drive can almost be seen in some video clips. It takes a well trained eyes to try and see weight shifts in a clip.

Hip Drives helps weight shifts, but these are two different matters. Interconnected, but different.

Improving in these two aspects should first be noticed in term of improvement in swim times.

Now, I will propose something that could be debated I guess. If you put weight shifts focus too early in your development as a swimmer, then chances are you won't feel it, or benefit from it.

Balance/streamline is so important, that if you're not good enough in these department, you may be using your body weight to swim (weight shifts), but that doesn't mean it will translate into more forward speed.

The implication of this last proposal is to the effect that you could improve weight shifts without any way of knowing this, if more important matters aren't addressed first.

A young swimmer that's barely able to hold 1:55/100m probably have other cats to beat than implementing weight shifts in my opinion; though that same person could greatly benefit from improving hip drive!

Please, do reply with your questions, as I feel that my answers will trigger other questions.
Good info Charles (Solar Energy?). Maybe you can post one of your videos to show the patient lead hand, engaging core through 2bk - that would be very helpful. A picture/video's worth a thousand words :-)

Stuart
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Old 12-09-2012
rcrawf rcrawf is offline
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Charles I get that there is a difference between hip drive and weight shift. My timing of weight shift, kick and spearing hand is good (thank you Stuart). Here is a quote from Louis Thorp discussing a high hips drill:

5. Stretch. Focus on the leading hand and stretch it as far forward as you can. Feel the stretch in your shoulder and lats. The big secret here is that stretching will make your hips higher. Maybe not at the top of the water when you first start, but they will be higher and get higher the more you focus on this stretch.
Don't forget this stretch feeling because it is this core body stretch that not only will keep your hips high, but is the first step to a productive kick -- the kind that starts at your hips and ends with you swimming in the first pack.

It is this feeling of the core being engaged that I am interested in. What does it feel like? Is it noticeable or just the imperceptible result of an efficient stroke?

Again I find Terry's quote worth pursuing in much detail: "deriving as much energy as possible from the core and blending seamlessly with the overall stroke."
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Old 12-09-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcrawf View Post
Charles I get that there is a difference between hip drive and weight shift. My timing of weight shift, kick and spearing hand is good (thank you Stuart). Here is a quote from Louis Thorp discussing a high hips drill:

5. Stretch. Focus on the leading hand and stretch it as far forward as you can. Feel the stretch in your shoulder and lats. The big secret here is that stretching will make your hips higher. Maybe not at the top of the water when you first start, but they will be higher and get higher the more you focus on this stretch.
Don't forget this stretch feeling because it is this core body stretch that not only will keep your hips high, but is the first step to a productive kick -- the kind that starts at your hips and ends with you swimming in the first pack.

It is this feeling of the core being engaged that I am interested in. What does it feel like? Is it noticeable or just the imperceptible result of an efficient stroke?

Again I find Terry's quote worth pursuing in much detail: "deriving as much energy as possible from the core and blending seamlessly with the overall stroke."
Not sure if there is a picture visual as you asked but I wonder if there is a fail safe SPL qualification that reassures you that you are engaging the core as prescribed. e.g. if you can perform 13SPL at TT1.3 then you know you are engaging the core correctly? or is that sort of propulsion possible with poor technique.

Certainly when I try to 'sprint' with 12SPL my primary focus is on stretching so far forward that my lats feel like they are popping.
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  #6  
Old 12-09-2012
rcrawf rcrawf is offline
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16-17 SPL seems to be a comfortable SPL for me in a 25 yd pool, height 5'8", TT around 1.2-1.1. I can't do 9 SPL like Shinji but I can do 11 or 12. Does this confirm my core is being engaged? I have no idea.

I am working on Sun Yang conversion, but I need my wife to measure wingspan first, a fun adjusted comparison indeed.

My next goal is to follow Terry's advice and hold 16-17 SPL for 250, then 500, then 750, while maintaing target SPL. Then once I can achieve this I will introduce TT or should I use TT on my first 250 say at around 1.2 and continue to use it thru the following sets?
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