too much pull.

[Mike from NS]

Janos,

I was watching a ski tip which suggested for better flow to change your thinking as to where the start and finish of the turn takes place. A very subtle change can make significant improvement of flow. It worked for me on the ski hill, so I wondered about a similarity in the pool. (Seems when skiing I try to relate things to swimming - like separating snowflakes being like separating water molecules.) This made me think of experimenting with with the stroke. Truly a cycle and to improve continuity and smoothness of flow, maybe there is a better thinking pattern which may help me. It isn't what to do but rather when to do the different parts of the cycle and to consider where to mark a beginning point. None-the-less --- it is all good !

[Janos]

Mike, good for you for combining swimming and skiing! Pole plant is normally advised as help in turning, which could be considered a fulcrum point, but I think the real connection between the two is when you complete a series of carved turns. The hips drive and create the motion, and the legs and arms are transmitting the forces generated. The legs angled and balanced, and the arms out in front to complete balance. You could say a similar thing happens when you start stroking. It seems to me sometimes that centripetal forces are at work during TI swimming, but as I am no physicist, I can't comment. The circular motion you can generate sometimes, feels quite powerful. I think it is this that is the answer to the original question. A catch can only ever really be a 'catch' if something else is acting on it. In our case it is our torso, so to develop feel for it, you must focus completely on the relationship between the rotating body, and the catch arm. Underswitch drills seem ideal for this in my experience.

Janos

[Mike from NS]

Good suggestion Janos !
I must work more diligently with the under switch drill. Must admit I've been delinquent when it comes to many of the drills -- exception being "nod&swim" drill. I'm continuously working with this one.

But you brought out another crossover point between the two sports/hobbies. The upper/lower body separation. Though they work in harmony to the whole experience we use them separately to some extent. The hip drive in swimming, and the quiet shoulders facing the fall line on the skis. The hip drive helps power the opposite shoulder in the pool. The skiing drill I mentioned was to think of the start and end of the turn more at the middle of the cycle when we hit the fall line about mid way through the carve rather than at the point when we initiate the turn at the body rise to lessen the weight on the ski. This thinking helps to blend this point into the overall path and thus brings more continuous flow. Think of the middle of the turn area of the carve similar to being the glide in the pool. So we are in mid flight with the pressure mounting on the downhill ski and the knee pressed into the hill, uphill knee bent with the body leaning into the hill. Both here and swimming the relaxed state are key ingredients. Swimmust's post of his torso twist timing revelations also factors in here too. When you can see comparisons between different activities, I think you can strengthen and clarify these through cross-over thinking. The common denominators are timing, balance, and relaxed state. Ahhh, yes ... they all have their respective drills too! Think of each I want to get to a ski hill right now and a pool too! :^) Maybe this is a subtle reason the major ski resorts always have outdoor pools too!

[Janos]

I do see what you mean Mike. The grip of the turn mid-way through its carve being as crucial as the catch and spear in swimming. Its seems so fundamentally easy to apply these theories to both sports, but as we, and a lot of others know, it takes a while to gain that awareness in the moment it is happening. Something that is hard won in both skiing and swimming...probably more painfully in skiing though. I must go to the wrong resorts. Have yet to get a swim on a ski holiday!

Janos

[CharlesCouturier]

Originally Posted by dgk2009

I noticed that I use the pull to turn to breath,thats when I realized it most,I understand I need to rewire my brain to push instead of pull but to me it's like learning to write with my other hand,even when I do underswitch I instinctively want to pull instead of push,I think this also explains my breathlessness,too much pull,this is my new thing to focus on.

Bahh, you're mixing things up a bit. You're not pulling too much, you're lifting yourself too much. This is very common obviously, and it's nothing that single arm drill can't easily fix!

All the best.