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Old 09-09-2010
Janos Janos is offline
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Hi all,

There are already quite a few threads dealing with the 2b kick timing and hip and shoulder rotation, but my questions regard the segue from 2b to 6b kick and back again.
I have spent most of this summer trying to master the 6b kick in the TI style, and spent quite a bit of time trying to do this while looking through my 2b 'eyes'. My conclusion is that if you visualise the power phase of the stroke as a torsional process, with concentration on opposite foot/arm co-ordination it somehow leaves you without enough time to visualise and then actuate the flutter lick in between the next rotational kick. I also think that perhaps 'looking' at it that way leaves massive margin for error for students in 2b form too, and also perhaps dissipates some power of the stroke?
My solution has been to re-visualise my stroke. I now co-ordinate my kick with my catch in my minds eye, and don't so much consciously rotate as nudge my hips (thanks Shinji). The shoulders obviously have to rotate to accommodate compact recovery and catch.
I now see two sides to my stroke as I swim. The side I skate on, and the side that drives the stroke, and visualising it that way in both 2b and 6b modes has made massive differences to all aspects of my stroke. especially in smoothness and eliminating any possibility of losing stroking power when breathing.
It would be interesting to hear musings on the visualisation process for this particular issue, especially pertaining to smoothness of stroke mechanics.

Regards

Janos
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  #2  
Old 09-09-2010
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
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Funny, today I tried to do a 6bk, just for a change. I did that once in the beginning of my fullstroke history and that time had the feeling I was flying through the pool. This time it was a disaster. It took my more than 25 strokes to get through a 22 m pool while it took me 14-18 to do it with a 2bk.
My visualization is quite simple and in fact doesn't change my stroke at all: I just add two kicks between the 'main' kicks. Sort of UMPF-umpf-umpf-UMPF-umpf-umpf-UMPF-umpf-umpf... instead of UMPF-....-UMPF-....- UMPF-...
Needs practice as it looks like. I forget it for the time being. I am not aiming to become a sprinter. In my regular pool visits with my quite relaxed 2bk I am at least as fast as the other amateur swimmer around me.
But one day I will try it out, just for the fun of a change.

Why are you going for a 6BK?
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  #3  
Old 09-10-2010
Grant Grant is offline
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An intresting viewpoint from Emmit Hines of Houston Swims and TI background is to learn the 6BK and then learn the 2BK.
In my case I went from an nondescript flutter kick (though effective for short distances) to the 2BK. Though I just use the flutter kick for the last lengths of the longer races or the whole of 50m and 100m races I have tried to develop an effective 6bk. This has not materialized and I have just about let go of that goal.
Appreciate your thoughts on the 6BK learning process and would appreciate any others on that subject as I feel a 6BK would be more effective than a unconnected flutter kick.
May we all swim with ease and at the speeds we choose.
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May we swim with ease at the speeds we choose.
Grant

Last edited by Grant : 09-11-2010 at 04:34 AM.
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Old 09-10-2010
Janos Janos is offline
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Hi Hachu/Grant,

I think I digressed a little too much with the 6b kick description, as it is the focal point of the rotational first kick that I wanted to discuss in detail. Since learning TI I have worked on a seamless integrated kick, but was never quite happy with the 'kick and spearing hand' visualisation. I have found greater satisfaction by letting the recovery arm do its elbow led thing, and thinking about connecting the downbeat of the kick to the catch at its most vertical. This is how I 'see' the power being created, which is at odds to how I used to 'see' it. Does this make sense?

Janos
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Old 09-10-2010
Alistair Alistair is offline
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I thought it about it that way too - I felt I was anchoring with the catching hand and the kick kind of 'kicked me over the top of it'.

But the spear is happening at the same time, so not sure how different it is to think of it in these two different ways :)
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Old 09-10-2010
daveblt daveblt is offline
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I doubt if I would ever even think about mastering a 6 beat kick . The way I swim just letting my legs trail behind me with my evolving 2 beat kick will probably always be good enough for me and this is after much time spent working on balance to where my legs are up where they belong nice and relaxed where they don't have a (mind all their own) .


Dave
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