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  #1  
Old 05-13-2017
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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Default What makes his freestyle so smooth?

Love this guys freestyle. Makes it look pretty smooth despite the catchup timing. But what makes it so nice?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0B3y7YWwlg (4 min30)

Last edited by Zenturtle : 05-13-2017 at 02:53 PM.
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  #2  
Old 05-13-2017
Danny Danny is offline
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ZT, what makes any really graceful swimmer so graceful? Hard to say, but here are a few observations: His dolphin kick is lovely. His butterfly is also really nice, so it's not just his freestyle. Right now I am focusing on a particular aspect of freestyle that I know you have discussed at length in previous posts. His shoulders are rotating much more than his hips when he swims freestyle. This may mean that he is storing energy in his twisted torso to be released up front when he spears. Last but not least, there are two things that make any stroke beautiful: great posture and perfect timing.
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  #3  
Old 05-13-2017
Danny Danny is offline
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Seems to me he has a 4bk with a pause after every cycle. Is he doing to to accomodate his breathing in some way?
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Old 05-13-2017
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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Is it working allready? My conclusion so far is that some extra usefull twist is a total package with some extra full upperbody reach and some extra internal shoulder rotation before catch.
About ten degrees twist is enough. Its more about not letting the hips roll out of control. Thats the main thing.
My focus that keeps on coming back in circles is how much upperbody weight to load on the extended arm/shoulder?
In my view this guy rotates the high shoulder out the water and some of that weight is handed over to the extended arm.
Its a tiny bit of the lopers action on both arms. Handling that weight in an effective manner can give a stroke a nice look.
Also notice how slow his pulling arm moves. No ripping the water there either.
And he does a lot of all the other things well ofcourse.
Most elites swim this way or even better, but after seeing so much normal guys in the pool you realize how big the difference is between this stroke and the avarage swimmers stroke.

Used google translate.
He is an Olympic medal butterflyer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takashi_Yamamoto_(swimmer)

Last edited by Zenturtle : 05-13-2017 at 04:33 PM.
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  #5  
Old 05-13-2017
Danny Danny is offline
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ZT, I've discovered that I can play around with this when I walk. My usual way to walk is with my hands at my sides, palms facing my legs. But if I turn my palms facing backwards, or even a little to the outside, so that my shoulders are rotated internally, then I find myself rotating the shoulders even more while the hips stay more or less pointed in the walking direction. The muscles needed to do this are over the entire torso, from the glutes to the shoulders, and the twisting helps my rotation, even when walking. Can you reproduce this effect?

When swimming, it seems to me to be important to keep the recovering hand internally rotated as it comes out of the water, not just the forward arm.
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  #6  
Old 05-13-2017
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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Hmm. The shoulders feel a bit more loose that way I agree. The arms are more decoupled from the total torso movement
.
You mean walking a bit like this ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGFA3PViSXU
Do you swim this way?;-)
Is it a coincidence that a boxer also comes up with this movement? Remember comparing boxing with dancing the twist in another thread?
He comes up with it because he is used to power his arms with with a twist from ground to shoulders. If he relaxes the arms and uses the same basic movement the arms start dingling that way around the shoulders.
Make a boxing move while relaxing the arm and you get the same result. So in that sense, of driving the arms from the torso, you are on the right track.


Maybe this man can teach us some torso awareness usable for swimming?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XguuJXVsb2k
He walks pretty smooth for a man without legs.

I see some resemblence with another mr smooth. Not exactly the same movement, but in both examples the part between hips and shoulders is actively involved in producing power by movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3HhNlysFDs

Last edited by Zenturtle : 05-13-2017 at 09:18 PM.
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  #7  
Old 05-13-2017
Danny Danny is offline
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ZT, you've done it again! Where do you find this stuff? Anyway, yes, I am trying to teach myself to swim like a boxer. This is work in progress, but the video confirmation you just sent me convinces me more than even that I am on the right track. I can almost see Conor McGregor swimming down the lane this way. The only thing I am missing right now are the tatoos!
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  #8  
Old 05-13-2017
Danny Danny is offline
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Next question: How does the simple act of rotating the shoulders inward unlock this kind of motion? Here is one theory: When you walk with your hands pointed towards you legs (or when you swim with a dropped elbow) your hands can move forward and backwards by bending your arm at the elbow. Thus the swinging of the hands is uncoupled from the shoulders and can be done with more or less stationary shoulders. However, when you rotate your shoulders inwards, the elbow bend no longer moves the hands forward and backwards. Instead, it moves the hand from side to side. Thus, if you want to move your hands forwards and backwards with a rotated shoulder, you are forced to do this motion with the shoulder instead of at the elbow. Does this make sense?

Last edited by Danny : 05-13-2017 at 09:56 PM.
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  #9  
Old 05-13-2017
Tom Pamperin Tom Pamperin is offline
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Seems like the easy cue for what you are talking about is to make sure the palms of your hands are facing up (toward the ceiling) as you pull your hand out of the water. I think I picked that up on this forum from Coach Stuart, and it was a key to getting a relaxed recovery. I think that's what you are talking about with "internal rotation of the shoulder" but for me, it's much easier to understand the more specific hands-up cue.
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  #10  
Old 05-14-2017
Danny Danny is offline
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Hi Tom, you are perhaps right that Stuart's rule to exit with your palm up is enough to get the point across, although I must admit that it wasn't quite enough for me, perhaps because I am a slow learner. In the end, any rule that works should be embraced, and sometimes different things work for different folks. Right now I try to keep those shoulders rotated internally the whole time, not just when I come out of the water in the back. Doing this keeps me from dropping my elbow on the down side in my stroke and doing it during the recovery keeps my elbow up. So, for me, it seems like it should be happening all the time.

There is another point that perhaps is more important for me, but may not be for others. It helps me to know why a rule works in order to remember it, and I also enjoy trying to get this deeper understanding. For me, the understanding that when you rotate your elbow internally bending your elbow can no longer move your hands forward and backward but only sideways is a surprising discovery. It helps me to understand why the internally rotated shoulder helps me to swim more with my shoulders and less with my hands. By doing this, I am anatomically blocking off the options to swim badly, or so it seems to me. :o)
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