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  #11  
Old 09-21-2012
Mike from NS Mike from NS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry View Post
.........
When I asked what they felt on my efficient kick, they described a sustained levering action throughout my weight shift. And on the 'soccer' kick, they felt a sharp punching action.

I then explained the difference was in how I use my quadricep or thigh muscle. In the 'easy-effective' kick, I kept my quad engaged - so it would simply connect energy/power generated by my weight shift to my 'lower-leg-lever.' In the other kick, I use my quad like, well, kicking a soccer ball.
Thanks Terry,

This helps clarify things farther for me (and I expect for Rajan as well).

So the flick of the toes concludes the leverage action of the engaged thigh muscles I expect.

Another example of "less is more"!

Mike
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  #12  
Old 09-21-2012
CoachGaryF CoachGaryF is offline
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I mostly tell my clients to allow their legs to function in swimming as their arms function in walking. We've had pretty good success with those who really struggle with 2-beat kick using the Finis Rangs. The swimmers get just enough stability from the Rangs that they can relax their legs a bit and let them flow and react to the other movements (torso, arms.) And that's how I describe 2-beat kick: it's really a reaction to the other moving parts and not so much an explicit act.

What I've found more complicated is the rhythmic discrepancy between implementing a 2 beat kick in easy swimming (tempo trainer setting of 1:1 and up) versus high tempos (particularly :90 and under.) Seems to me in the slower tempos the 2-beat kick and the spearing arm are slightly sequential (the kick finishes prior to completing the spear; you can see this at the :53 mark of Shinji's youtube hit video, where his left leg has completed the kick and his right arm has yet to complete the spear). I think this is by far the most common way TI swimmers experience the 2-beat kick. I don't think it's the same way high tempo 2-beat swimmers integrate it into their overall swimming pattern. I have not been terribly successful working out this relationship at high speeds. Very high tempo female distance swimmers seem to actually synchronize the finish of the kick to the initial CATCH phase: (Laure Manaudou at around the 2:22 mark of this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om48Q...feature=relmfu).

I rarely feel out of sync in the water, but when I try to 2-beat kick Manaudou style all hell breaks loose. Think I'm happy (and content and, yes, kinda fat) sticking with my Shinji-style. (Or is he sticking with his Gary style? Think I learned that before he did...haha!)

Does anyone find a different rhythmic relationship of the 2-beat kick to the other moving parts? Is there a 3rd way?

This may be a clearer (and much shorter) example of high tempo 2-beat kick syncing kick and catch (Brooke Bennett, 2000 Olympic champ at 400/800 meters, and not exactly an example of TI swimming): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8NplL6Jf1Y

I apologize for my crappy linking skills. Haven't posted a lot of the forum and a bit unfamiliar with some of the formatting.
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  #13  
Old 09-22-2012
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachGaryF View Post
I don't think it's the same way high tempo 2-beat swimmers integrate it into their overall swimming pattern. I have not been terribly successful working out this relationship at high speeds. Very high tempo female distance swimmers seem to actually synchronize the finish of the kick to the initial CATCH phase: (Laure Manaudou at around the 2:22 mark of this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om48Q...feature=relmfu).

I rarely feel out of sync in the water, but when I try to 2-beat kick Manaudou style all hell breaks loose. Think I'm happy (and content and, yes, kinda fat) sticking with my Shinji-style.
Cause we're talking 2 different 2bk technique. You have the one Shinji displays, which sees the foot coming back up toward the surface after each kick, optimal streamlining thus being achieved, and you have the faster rate 2bk where feet no longer have time to go back up after kicking.

Though in the second case, you feel like the whole body is moving totally in synch from finger tips to toes, following a 1-2-1-2-1-2 pattern, I believe it's still possible to offset the kick a bit, ideally issuing it a tiny bit before. But hey, we're talking real fine tuning here.

It takes a swimmer able to handle these sensations at 80spm or higher (ie, .75). Most can only dream of achieving streamline no drag at that rate feeding on 2b alone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachGaryF View Post
Does anyone find a different rhythmic relationship of the 2-beat kick to the other moving parts? Is there a 3rd way?
I'm sure I don't understand this question well, but at that rate, I see the kick relating with the body rotation. Maintaining this high rate requires some level of effort at the core level (or at least, great control), in my humble opinion the reason why it feels better anticipating the kick a bit is that it kind of gives the rotation a slight boost. What I believe you call the switch is receiving a bit of a turbo charge, as long as the kick comes slightly before.

Otherwise, for what it's worth, Ernest Maglischo did find a correlation (so to speak) between every one of the 6 beats occurring within a single cycle and a corresponding pulling phase, given his classification. That is, he's classified the active pulling range in 3 phases, downsweep - insweep - upsweep. The major kick would occur during the downsweep, then the two other kicks would occur during the insweep and upsweep. I donno if it's by coincidence (he wouldn't say so).

Now the interesting thing is that whilst it would be reasonable to believe that every kick of a 2bk pattern would occur - timing wise - with the downsweep phase (after all, a 2bk could be seen as a 6bk minus the minor kicks), he found out that in the case of most 2b kickers, the relation between arms and legs would change a bit. 2b kicker would possibly shorten the entry/downsweep phase so that each kick would rather occur during the insweep/upsweep of the arm stroke.

In my own terms, it's like turning the freestyle stroke from a 1-2-3 1-2-3 pattern into a 1-2-1-2 pattern, like I was mentioning earlier.

So. What this means, is that Ernest Maglischo has observed over time that every kick of a 2bk pattern tends to occur *passed* the catch phase. As far as I'm concern, I don't care this too much as I tend to relate everything around the body rotation. Kicks relate to it, and arms too.

Last edited by CharlesCouturier : 09-22-2012 at 08:56 PM.
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