The Pushoff

[sclim]

Originally Posted by novaswimmer

I'd like to see videos of us sinky guys doing that drill well.

Oh, is that the problem? I tried it today, no matter how clean I made my outline and how much I willed my chest downwards, by the end of the glide, my legs slowly settled down. It appears we are simply hostages to physics.

I wonder if this is also an unchangeable factor in whole stroke when I do a 2 beat kick (at slow speeds my legs sink by the end of the glide). I wonder if I do a tiny flutter at the end of the push-off glide would that be cheating and negate the effect of the clean glide?

[Zenturtle]

in Andys link the girls legs sink too. A bit of flutter at the end of the glide wont harm

general streamline
I am a fan of this kids coach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XZWzD63o_M

for people who dont bob up, well..., dont
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NngFPkwI48

[sclim]

Well, since I don't compete in pool events, nailing the streamline on push-off is less important to me. More relevant to this are the insights on what creates drag, what cuts down drag that I can apply to my whole stroke technique. One idea that I have is that if the shoulders are the widest part of my cross section, perhaps in whole stroke I should really work on minimising the period of time that the shoulder girdle is presented in the perpendicular direction, and maximise the time when it is in the oblique orientation, and maybe maximise the angle of obliquity for as long as possible. Is this feasible?

[Zenturtle]

I think you better just see the streanline as a stretching/extending exercise.

[sclim]

I tried push-off again this morning. Normally I push on "0" count "1, 2," TT beeps and do first pull (+spear) on the 3rd beep, but by this time my feet are dropping. So at the internal count of "1" I did a gentle flutter to keep my legs from sinking. That added an extra foot to the distance where I mark my first breath on the stroke immediately following the first pull. Hard to say if the difference was merely due to better correction of drag from dropping feet, or directly from the propulsive effect of the flutter.

[novaswimmer]

Originally Posted by sclim

I tried push-off again this morning. Normally I push on "0" count "1, 2," TT beeps and do first pull (+spear) on the 3rd beep, but by this time my feet are dropping. So at the internal count of "1" I did a gentle flutter to keep my legs from sinking. That added an extra foot to the distance where I mark my first breath on the stroke immediately following the first pull. Hard to say if the difference was merely due to better correction of drag from dropping feet, or directly from the propulsive effect of the flutter.

I only speculate that the extra foot came from the flutter causing your legs to remain closer to the surface (less whole body drag) rather than from propulsion, unless you have really big feet and very flexible ankles.

[sclim]

Originally Posted by novaswimmer

I only speculate that the extra foot came from the flutter causing your legs to remain closer to the surface (less whole body drag) rather than from propulsion, unless you have really big feet and very flexible ankles.

No I don't. I just did a gentle flutter, more like geared to keep my feet up. I don't know how well I could judge that there was less forward propulsion component, but that's what it felt like, in which case you're likely right.

[novaswimmer]

Originally Posted by sclim

No I don't. I just did a gentle flutter, more like geared to keep my feet up. I don't know how well I could judge that there was less forward propulsion component, but that's what it felt like, in which case you're likely right.

I know I've posted this before...Shinji doing Superman glide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwV7aik6doM

I just don't think one can achieve this feat without a ridiculously-buoyant body. Yes, posture has something to do with it for sure, but he's not even going into a good streamline position (hands together, arms close to head) and can still glide halfway across the pool.

[andyinnorway]

I don't think the mega glide is important but caring about the length of push off, relative to each individual.

Consistent, strong, long and fast.

Since we want to pick up the stroke just ahead of our normal swimming pace there is no need for a long float.

I always try to carry push off speed through to the stroke.

I haven't personally seen anyone yet that can't do 5m when focused and coached?

[CoachBobM]

Originally Posted by jenson1a

AndyinNorway had suggested in another thread that in order to become more streamlined, one should practice pushing off and focusing on being as streamlined as possible. I have started doing this and there does seem to be some improvement in my spl.

One thing I notice tho, is that sometimes I push off deeper than other times.
Is there a tradeoff in doing this? I also notice that sometimes my push off is hindered by waiting to take that first underwater stroke. By doing this, when I rise to the top of the water, I am at almost at a completely dead stop. Forward motion has gone. Not sure of this is due to a deeper push off or just the timing of the underwater stroke is too late.

Any comments?

Sherry

There is an advantage to streamlining a certain distance below the surface. As you are moving through the water, your body creates a wave that reflects off the surface of the water and comes back and hits you. But if you are about 15 inches below the surface (the exact amount depends on your height), the wave reflects back past your feet and misses you. So it's advantageous to be that far under the water, but if you go any deeper than that, it just forces you to climb back to the surface, which takes time. If you aren't surfacing until your forward movement has nearly stopped, that's an indication that you're going too deep.

Keep in mind, too, that regardless of how deep you go, you always want your body to remain horizontal as you surface. If you are doing this correctly, your shoulders and butt should surface at the same moment.

Other things to keep in mind:

1) You want your hands locked together, hand over hand, wrist over wrist, with the thumb of your rear hand hooked around your front hand. You should then use the leverage this provides to press your arms tightly against the back of your ears. Keep in mind that the tighter you press, the faster you will typically go.

2) Your toes should be pointed in line with your ankles, and your feet should be just far enough apart to keep your body from rotating about the axis of your spine.

3) The crossover point (where you switch from streamlining to swimming) should be the point at which your streamline speed is dropping below the speed at which you can stroke (which may vary depending on what stroke you are doing).

4) The crossover does not have to be instantaneous. When you feel yourself starting to slow, you can maintain an upper body streamline while adding a dolphin kick with your lower body. This dolphin kick is initiated by an up-and-down thrusting of your hips which undulates down to your toes. Unlike the body dolphin that is the central core body movement in butterfly, the undulation of the dolphin kick only goes from the belly button down to the toes.


Bob