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  #1  
Old 01-28-2016
jenson1a jenson1a is offline
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Default Forward Extension Drill

There are always pros and cons to a drill, but I came across this one on the Go Swim site.

https://www.goswim.tv/lessons/2051-f...e-gator-sticks

Wondering how this fits into the TI theme and what are the pros and cons to doing it.

Sherry

the only thing against this that I can see is that it may promote crossing the mid-line?

Last edited by jenson1a : 01-28-2016 at 10:08 AM. Reason: add a thought
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  #2  
Old 01-29-2016
CoachBobM CoachBobM is offline
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I'm unable to view it because it wants a signin.


Bob
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  #3  
Old 01-29-2016
jenson1a jenson1a is offline
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oops I was afraid of that

Not sure how Zenturtle posts these Go Swim videos--must be a way around it

Sorry

Sherry
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  #4  
Old 01-29-2016
jenson1a jenson1a is offline
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Don't know if an explanation of this drill, but will give it a try.

Basically it initially looked like a catch up drill , but after hearing the narrator's explanation, I realized it wasn't. The swimmer is holding a stick in one hand and as the other hand comes forward, he grabs the stick with the other hand. He explains that this requires the least focus since the swimmer is focusing just on switching the stick.
The narrator explains that this helps to make the lead hand stays in front before grabbing the stick (patient lead hand).

Next he says to kick through the breath--this requires the most focus for the swimmer.
(Not really sure why this requires so much focus)

Last, initiate the catch as soon as you release the stick and hold the catch through the full pull.

These comments aren't a direct quote, but most is what the narrator said.

To me it looks like a good drill to maintain a patient lead hand as well as the forward extension. Not too sure what he means when he says to kick through the breath.

Does this help? The reason I am asking is that so many drills look wonderful, but they may have more "cons" then pros".

Sherry
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  #5  
Old 01-29-2016
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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I'm a big fan of patient lead hand - especially for fit triathletes that swim with short stroke and high cadence.

The biggest obstacle for most of these people is to not drop the elbow as soon as it hits the water, so I like to give them a massive pause.


1. Set TT to a rate slightly slower (5-10 SPM) than the swimmer's normal pace

2. Get them to swim a double beep stroke every 3rd of 4 strokes.

e.g.
at tt 1.0 the swimmer swims 4 strokes every 5 seconds and breathes every other stroke as normal.

Making them hold the 3rd stroke every 4 strokes interrupts the boom boom boom rhythm and encourages them to comprehend the patient catch.
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  #6  
Old 01-29-2016
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Hi Sherry,

That drill has been around for some time and is just "catch-up" drill using a stick to keep entry wide so not to touch hands in front of head. It's still a "catch-up" drill, rotation is generated from the pulling hand/shoulder and not the hip/pelvis.

The "kick to breath" really means kick to rotate body to breathe which is counter to "catch-up" with the stick. The hands stopping in front prevent rotating from the hips triggered by kick.

Stuart
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Old 01-29-2016
sclim sclim is offline
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Nice trick, keeping you honest by needing you hold the stick till the other hand gets there. Otherwise, like me, old habit drags lead hand down prematurely if you're not paying exquisite attention!

But, one more piece of equipment needed to drag to the pool. At last count I have
1) Goggles with TT clipped on
2) Snorkel
3) Flippers
4) Towel

Now a broomstick LOL! But the spacing element is brilliant. I think despite my efforts, my lead hand tends to drift towards the midline. If you specify an essential part of the drill to be holding the stick with the end in the palm, and keeping it exactly transversely oriented, it should work perfectly and precisely.

Last edited by sclim : 01-29-2016 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 01-30-2016
jenson1a jenson1a is offline
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Sclim

Part of your quote

Now a broomstick LOL! But the spacing element is brilliant. I think despite my efforts, my lead hand tends to drift towards the midline. If you specify an essential part of the drill to be holding the stick with the end in the palm, and keeping it exactly transversely oriented, it should work perfectly and precisely.

That is exactly how the swimmer held the stick--pointing forward.

I had signed up at Go Swim to get a mini lesson every day though my email. I was particularly inspired by AndyinNorway suggesting to practice breast stroke for better streamlining. It just so happened that Go Swim had been talking about the breast stroke, and how to do it. Just wanted to get the basics, so I signed up for the mini tips. The stick that the swimmer used was only about 6 inches long. I guess you could also use those diving sticks that the kids play with.

Sherry
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  #9  
Old 01-30-2016
jenson1a jenson1a is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
Hi Sherry,

That drill has been around for some time and is just "catch-up" drill using a stick to keep entry wide so not to touch hands in front of head. It's still a "catch-up" drill, rotation is generated from the pulling hand/shoulder and not the hip/pelvis.

The "kick to breath" really means kick to rotate body to breathe which is counter to "catch-up" with the stick. The hands stopping in front prevent rotating from the hips triggered by kick.

Stuart
Thanks for that last paragraph. Based on the last video I had posted (almost a year ago), you had suggested to clean up on my timing of the 2bk, hip rotation, and stroke. I have been trying to develop that, but it has also been suggested that my shoulder driven stroke may not be so easy to correct (based on almost 67 years of swimming that way).

Anyway, I thought that this drill would help to keep a patient lead hand and also with the forward extension. But what you are saying is that when the stick is transferred from one hand to the other, in effect, it is putting on the breaks for the forward extension? If so, is it still a good drill for the patient lead hand?

Sherry
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  #10  
Old 01-30-2016
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Hi Sherry,

I recall your video a bit. It wasn't that you had the impulse to pull but rather kicking (down) on wrong leg that inhibits rotation was the problem. Putting focus on pelvis/hip rotation will help with the timing issue.

The intentions of catch-up are good in that it gets the swimmer to hold arm in front longer, good for windmilling arms that are tough to decouple. But yes, when both arms stop in front (grabbing the stick), body goes flat, rotation stops and you've lost that valuable momentum from weight shift, as well as stunts continuous motion.

Stuart
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