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  #11  
Old 09-17-2015
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Hi Sherry

imho over-rotation is when the hips move as much as the shoulders. They should rotate say 5-10' less. (shoulder rotation is defined by the recovery)

I've had big problems with and caused by over-rotation. Sometimes I would have to pause my stroke so as not to roll onto my back!

Good luck with it :)
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A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
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  #12  
Old 10-11-2015
jenson1a jenson1a is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
Using the pool toys is just fine when discovering right/wrong positions - not creating a crutch that mask issues that need to be addressed. I often have swimmers use the Finis Tech-Toc. It tecs and tocs when max rotation has been reached. In addition to max rotation, you discover where other parts of your body are in relation to max rotation when you feel and hear the tec-toc.

Finis Tech-Toc: http://www.finisinc.com/Tech-Toc

Use discount code: "mindbodyswim" for 15% off :-)

Stuart
MindBodyAndSWIM
Coach Stuart

Have you seen the latest aid in hip rotation by Finis called Hydro Hip? It is suppose to give feedback if you are pulling before the hip rotates. It is cheaper than the Tec-toc and doesn't require good hearing. If hands hit the blade, you get instant feedback that you are not initiating hip drive first.

Is there another way of getting this feedback on hip timing? The marketing department always seems to come up with good reasons that you have to have this.

Sherry
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  #13  
Old 10-11-2015
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Hi Sherry,

I've used the hydro-hip and tried them on several swimmers too. It does help get the hips more involved since since you really have to give it an 'umph' to rotate the hips, but have mixed feelings on using it as a cue for timing. You really need to cinch them up tight around the waist so they don't slip and that's a bit uncomfortable and foreign for most swimmers. As for over-rotation, I don't think the hydro-hip will help much.

Stuart

Last edited by CoachStuartMcDougal : 10-11-2015 at 07:03 PM.
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  #14  
Old 10-12-2015
jenson1a jenson1a is offline
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Coach Stuart

Thanks for answering my question. The reason I asked, is that back in early June, I had posted a video of my swim and you had made several comments, but the crux of it was that the kick timing s/b a priority for me. Solving this problem would lead to a more hip driven stroke, better fwd movement, better breathing, better balance, and also help to correct legs dropping. Wow if I could solve that one issue (kick timing) It seems that I would have a much better stroke.

When I saw the advertisement for the hydro hip, I thought that it would be an aid for instant feedback on an arm driven stroke. also would help me rotate hips in a more timely fashion. I think that if I used the hydro hip, I would find that my hand was hitting the blades way before the hip rotated.

Anyway, if you aren't sure that it would help in timing, you will have saved me $30 plus shipping.

Sherry
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  #15  
Old 10-12-2015
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Hi Sherry,

You can always try and see how it works for you. As noted earlier, I have mixed feelings on cueing timing with recovery at hips. What's much more important is to concentrate on the timing in front. I've even had to move the fins on a few swimmers from 90 degs (sticking out like wings) to more F18 tail like. The infinite number of paths the underwater arm can take, even when the rotation is enough, sometimes the hand will bump the fin - and that's all triggered by timing up front. On one swimmer, they stopped short and triggered lifting recovery arm too early to avoid the fin. At that phase of his stroke development, it was far more important to carry momentum of recovery to full extension that allows the recovery arm to swing wide naturally from the momentum generated by body rotation. Hope that makes sense and isn't too overly technical.

In any case, I don't think the hydro-fin will hurt, but I think you will get more benefit concentrating on what's moving forward: the recovery, timing up front and and hip focals (i.e. hip nudge, (high) hip drives recovery arm to fwd extension)

Stuart
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  #16  
Old 10-12-2015
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello Sherry,

FWIW: Mat told me two metaphors to alternate as FPs. First same as Stuart's, think about the hip drives your spearing hand/arm forward. Second the opposite, think about your spearing hand/arm pulls hip and body into correct Position and forward. It's curious, both do feel very different...

2ct or less more: For me the FP locking the connection hip-shoulder led to a very slender (sad enough, only) feeling and makes me to lose one or two SPLs if I got it right together with one of the above FPs. And a great help was working on Mandy's drill. (Still enough work left to imprint the goodies... But I'll feel at once, if one of the connections doesn't klick right...)

Best regards,
Werner
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  #17  
Old 10-16-2015
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
... FWIW: Mat told me two metaphors to alternate as FPs. First same as Stuart's, think about the hip drives your spearing hand/arm forward. Second the opposite, think about your spearing hand/arm pulls hip and body into correct Position and forward. ..
These appeal to me a lot Werner! I learned from drawing how to look for the negative as well as the positive image of something, and these two may help me get the balance and avoid overdoing things.
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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