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  #11  
Old 02-12-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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Originally Posted by junkman View Post
I've always been more comfortable breathing to the left. What's helping learn bilateral is to notice my lead hand position and begin an exhale. So...Right side breath is next, right hand is currently leading and I'm exhaling (at least a little).

Right arm begins stroke when left is ready to enter. Process is: head turns to follow shoulder, only 1 eye out, open mouth when air available (don't choke water), quick turn eyes back down. Go 3 strokes repeat breath on other side. Concentrate on roll & not lifting shoulder or head. Body as close to straight above black line as possible with no lateral movement. Ankles close together unless cocking for kick.

Try extending to 4 strokes some times. Breath at 2 strokes if short on air.

Relax. Take 2-3 breaths at end to access & regroup. Start superman, align head, stroke, notice lead hand, begin exhale....continue.
Haha!, sounds really complicated when someone else is reading it! But I've done that myself, with trying to rehears a sequence, I guess. But when I do it, I rehearse it very slowly until I've got the sequence clearly in my head and in my muscle memory on dry land, and slowly speed it up. So, hopefully I've got the sequence and reference points clearly in my head before trying it in the pool, so when I run into difficulties I have some dry land familiarity to fall back on. But when I write it out it sounds complicated, but it's not really. I assume that's what you're doing, complete with "reminder notes to self."
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  #12  
Old 02-12-2015
jenson1a jenson1a is offline
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Originally Posted by daveblt View Post
I have read through this post a couple times and want to clarify . When one arm is extended and the other hand is just getting ready to enter the water is the time when YOU START your roll to the air . The actual time when YOU START to get your air is approx. at the end of your pull and beginning of recovery and until that recovered arm is just before your goggles and then your face returns to the water .At least that's how I've always done it after swimming TI for the past 19 years or so.

Dave
Thanks Dave, this is what I was trying to articulate, but botched it up! When someone tells you to breathe early, how early is early? The answer is at the end of the pull and just the beginning of recovery.

the real key to the whole issue (at least for me) is the phrase let chin follow the shoulder to air. I was not doing that and when I did, it just felt right.

Tks for comment

Sherry
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  #13  
Old 02-12-2015
jenson1a jenson1a is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
Hi Sclim, noticing the recovery arm pass by your goggles is only a visual "cue" that the breath is late or too long. It's not part of the timing of the breath. Chin follows shoulder to air, inhale quick is the only timing that you need to think about.

I put together a coach blog on breathing a couple of months ago that may be helpful: Breathing, it's Overrated

Stuart
Coach Stuart

I have read your blog many times and to me, it clicked more than the swim and nod drill. It was more simple to remember.

It's really funny that something so vital (breathing) is so hard to put into words and once it is put into words, then comes the complexity of interpretation!

Your statement,"chin follows shoulder to air, inhale quick is the only timing to think about" says it all

Tks for your comments

Sherry
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  #14  
Old 02-12-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
If you see your recovery arm move past your goggles when rolling to breathe - it's too long and/or late and you only will find more water than air.

Keep it simple, empty lungs as chin follows shoulder to air, quick inhale and return your head to goggles down.
One other possibility that I had not fully considered was the "too long" in your above explanation -- when my mind drifts, and I see the recovery arm move past the goggles, it is entirely possible I breathed at the right point in the cycle, but was lazy in moving my face back down again promptly. How important is this promptness to get down again, and is the lack of promptness a common problem?
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  #15  
Old 02-13-2015
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Originally Posted by sclim View Post
One other possibility that I had not fully considered was the "too long" in your above explanation -- when my mind drifts, and I see the recovery arm move past the goggles, it is entirely possible I breathed at the right point in the cycle, but was lazy in moving my face back down again promptly. How important is this promptness to get down again, and is the lack of promptness a common problem?
Good question Sclim.

Once you get a full tank of air, there's no reason to keep your head in the breathing position, gently return head back to goggles down. And knowing the window to get breath is short, this establishes good timing too. The longer your head's in the breathing position, the greater the chance for error (lifting head, long breath, tension, etc).

That said, swimming in open water when breathing to left or right sighting laterally on shoreline, other swimmers, buoy, etc, I may leave my head in the breathing position (one goggle above surface) a split second longer to have a better look - or if I'm checking my recovery entry with my peripheral vision. But in either case, I've gotten a full tank of air and beginning a slow exhale *before* recovery arm passes the goggles.

Stuart

Last edited by CoachStuartMcDougal : 02-13-2015 at 01:02 AM.
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  #16  
Old 02-13-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
Once you get a full tank of air, there's no reason to keep your head in the breathing position, gently return head back to goggles down. And knowing the window to get breath is short, this establishes good timing too. The longer your head's in the breathing position, the greater the chance for error (lifting head, long breath, tension, etc).
OK, how gently?

The reason I ask is that once I noticed that I was lollygagging my head longer than necessary after the breath, I started actively turning my head down to the centreline, or at least that's how it felt -- maybe because I had gotten so used to the delayed timing that it now felt a little rushed, but I thought I had better get on the new schedule and get used to it.

The correct procedure is that you break the connection of the head with the shoulder (the same shoulder that you followed to air), after the breath, and actively turn away from it even before it (the shoulder) starts to rotate back down into the water, so that your head beats it to the midline (looking straight down) before the shoulder passes the neutral position (parallel with the water surface), right?

So my guess is that it should be gently enough not to cause jerkiness and violence in the stroke sequence, but promptly and briskly. Would this be correct?
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  #17  
Old 02-13-2015
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Returning head to neutral position (goggles down) promptly and smoothly after getting breath is a good way to characterize.

Stuart
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  #18  
Old 02-13-2015
fooboo fooboo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
Returning head to neutral position (goggles down) promptly and smoothly after getting breath is a good way to characterize.
Faster than the rest of the body?
So far I let it attached to the body. How the body
rolls back, head goes goggles down.
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  #19  
Old 02-13-2015
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Here's an example of the late and/or long breath - in this case definitely late causing an interruption in stroke to get that breath. I call this "sucking on the arm pit" and is a fairly common sight at the pool. The result of this late or long breath is over-rotation, elbow although high, is directly over body making it unstable, tension in the neck as if the shoulder and head have collided.

Other errors created as a consequence of poor breath timing, thumb in entry (swimmer's palm is facing cam) creating shoulder impingement and adding a lot of extra movement to get into a clean catch after rotating to right edge.

Below the surface the swimmer has started to pull early to keep head buoyant and maintain stability. His head will rotate back to neutral (goggles down) with his body rotation because he has no other choice with this timing.

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  #20  
Old 02-13-2015
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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I always imagine my armpit is my mouth and that is doing the breathing. As the recovering hand clears the water, the armpit opens and breathes.

In this visualisation the armpit works like a bellows pulling air in when open and pushing it out (the stroke phase) when closing.

It's very easy to remember and feel when in the water.
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