Cardiac frequency

[Fundeto]

Hello,
Does someone know something about training by cardiac frequency, some plan of training......?
For running there is a lot of information but for swimming I can´t find nearly anything.

Thank you

[sclim]

Originally Posted by Fundeto

Hello,
Does someone know something about training by cardiac frequency, some plan of training......?
For running there is a lot of information but for swimming I can´t find nearly anything.

Thank you

Presumably by cardiac frequency you mean heart rate, which would be a convenient, easily measured surrogate marker for intensity of exertion.

I am far from being an expert in swimming, being a struggling beginner still. However, being an experienced runner, where heart rate is a reasonably reliable indicator of running speed, and is usefully monitored during intelligent training, this aspect of swimming was uppermost in my mind, until I got more familiar with the TI method, which emphasises that speed in swimming is more related to efficiency of swimming technique, or more likely lack of efficiency, rather than the intensity of power output/exertion. As most swimmers are abysmally inefficient in their technique, any attention paid to training for higher tolerance to exertional intensity is entirely wasted until quite a high level of improvement in technique is acquired. That latter situation would not apply to most of us for now lol.

[CoachDavidShen]

The other problem with training with HR is simply there is no good way to measure HR and allow you to easily see what it is at any time. You can't look at your HR watch, assuming one of those Polar watches who advertise that the accompanying HR strap works in the pool actually works. The closest you could get is using a FINIS HR monitor which announces your HR verbally every few seconds. The FINIS HR monitor is otherwise very primitive. It doesn't let you set HR zones or anything else.

Now having said the above, there is a time for worrying about metabolics and when there is not. We like to teach efficiency first over metabolic training and until you can hold near perfect form at high effort, it is not productive to worry about metabolic training for a long time yet. Otherwise you could be compromising your stroke and raising effort but gaining little otherwise - it is likely your stroke could deteriorate in your effort to keep up with a HR level such that you slow down.

[tomoy]

I tried the Finis HR monitor and it developed a leak within 3 months and became useless. Many reviews online showed similar. We're probablY a couple years away from good swimming HR feedback. The latest wearables trend is encouraging.

By the time you stop at the end of a lap, find your pulse and count 10-15 seconds, it will have dropped considerably. You might get good at consistently measuring, but it won't be a good peak measurement.

Agree with the above, it's all moot until your technique is considered very good.

[sclim]

Originally Posted by CoachDavidShen

The other problem with training with HR is simply there is no good way to measure HR and allow you to easily see what it is at any time. You can't look at your HR watch, assuming one of those Polar watches who advertise that the accompanying HR strap works in the pool actually works. The closest you could get is using a FINIS HR monitor which announces your HR verbally every few seconds. The FINIS HR monitor is otherwise very primitive. It doesn't let you set HR zones or anything else.

Now having said the above, there is a time for worrying about metabolics and when there is not. We like to teach efficiency first over metabolic training and until you can hold near perfect form at high effort, it is not productive to worry about metabolic training for a long time yet. Otherwise you could be compromising your stroke and raising effort but gaining little otherwise - it is likely your stroke could deteriorate in your effort to keep up with a HR level such that you slow down.

I guess that is what I instinctively figured out. But I got to see the pragmatic demonstration of what happens to a recently acquired efficiency with even the slightest metabolic overload last week when I tried to practice a rather superficially learned tumble turn. Compared to a reasonably even-paced 50m set using a simple touch turn, the return length after a tumble turn felt only mildly stressed, but I added 2 to 3 strokes without even realising it! Learning good solid technique well is very important, particularly the ability to hang on to this good technique in the face of distraction and mild fatigue and exertional intensity.

[Fundeto]

Yes I mean Heart rate.
Thank you everyone,i´ll tranning in technique.

[CoachDavidShen]

Originally Posted by sclim

Learning good solid technique well is very important, particularly the ability to hang on to this good technique in the face of distraction and mild fatigue and exertional intensity.

Well said sclim! This is EXACTLY what TI prepares you for, including situations of extreme fatigue and not only mild!

[sclim]

Originally Posted by CoachDavidShen

Well said sclim! This is EXACTLY what TI prepares you for, including situations of extreme fatigue and not only mild!

I guess what I meant was, even with mild fatigue my technique dropped off catastrophically, much to my chagrin. But I'm sure this is normal at this stage of learning, and recognition of this fact, and working around it is a core part of TI teaching philosophy. I'm sure in the future my training will include working to "toughen" my technique so it is eventually impervious to extreme stress and metabolic fatigue once it is stable under milder load. But for the present it is prudent, if humbling, to realise that my concentration is better spent stabilising my technique under mild metabolic load, (with constant monitoring for deterioration or form) rather than going directly to more intense exertion, which I am not afraid of, but which I know will only be an exercise in futility and "practicing struggle" (i.e. poor form) at my stage of the game.