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  #21  
Old 01-19-2016
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello Stuart,

Quote:
...It seems Werner's over-rotation is caused from rotating more to breathe and is now imprinted on both breathing and non breathing strokes...
Oh yes, always striving for a symmetric stroke... :-)

Best regards,
Werner
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  #22  
Old 01-19-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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why can she swim with almost stacked shoulders and have the whole torso sticking above water, getting an easy breath?

- buoyancy?
- speed?
- technique?

the first 2 are not changed easily, so is there something to change on the third possible cure?
Can Werner achieve something like this?
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  #23  
Old 01-19-2016
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello ZT,

hahaha... Is she swimming FS or BS? OK. Give me four weeks and I'll show you my personal result... LOL allowed! (Don't know how, because this will not be done in the tiny gym-pool...)

But honestly: It's a screenshot and her speed will be beyond good and evil. I think she's bopping and she's spearing up a little what will let her float up with this speed. To your first point I'm afraid I'm even more buoyant than she will be...

Best regards,
Werner
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  #24  
Old 01-19-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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I dont see much bounce
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ8iw8q2F9U
And she achieves the same position without arms action and about the same roll angle....How?

Surprised you float so well. Mouth above surface is above avarage buoyancy.
Maybe the straighter spearing helps more than expected, but plenty with your spear angle that seem to track at the surface more.

When you stiffen the torso and feel more strange things happening, its because the false kicks are transmitted better to the front and these disturbing kicks mess up your general rhythm more now.
Should be a trigger to get rid of them instead of getting rid of the core connection.
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  #25  
Old 02-13-2016
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Werner, as you know I have exactly the same problem.

Last week, foucsing on improving my breathing, or getting it consistent (sometimes it's great and then rubbish), I was using aero fins to get my longitudinal line right, using the head-bob while swimming to get neutral head, and focusing on holding my long line - the result was astonshing. I simply could not breathe as my head was underwater.

In face down position, any water flowing over the top of my head is no issue. Anyway I can't feel it. Water flowing over my nose and mouth when I try to breathe though is a no-no. Sadly we all have different densities and though these are very similar we are only talking small differences to get that extra inch or two necessary. I think that when my breathing works it's something about the angle of my head when it is rotated, maybe more into my shoulder PLUS keeping my shoulder back (so it doesn't push a wave forward over my mouth!). I have felt the surface of the water drawing a line along the side of my nose. When that happens I have an age to breathe (and it also feels great!)

But I am going to try swimming flat. That is something I ditched at the beginning of my TI journey. I've never even considered ditching the rotation (or the feeling of skating rotation). Maybe I've been confusing skiing and swimming! :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post
I dont see much bounce
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ8iw8q2F9U
And she achieves the same position without arms action and about the same roll angle....How?

Surprised you float so well. Mouth above surface is above avarage buoyancy.
Maybe the straighter spearing helps more than expected, but plenty with your spear angle that seem to track at the surface more.

When you stiffen the torso and feel more strange things happening, its because the false kicks are transmitted better to the front and these disturbing kicks mess up your general rhythm more now.
Should be a trigger to get rid of them instead of getting rid of the core connection.
My answer fwiw is that she stays stiff, moves fast and therefore her spear and whole body acts like a hydroplane.

I was going to say subcutaneous fat but from the pics I've seen online she looks really very lean! Having said that maybe her muscles have a high proportion of fat in them (over to any biologists out there on that one).
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov

Last edited by Talvi : 02-13-2016 at 05:23 PM.
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  #26  
Old 02-13-2016
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello Talvi,

I am happy, that I could lure you into the forum again... :-)

Quote:
In face down position, any water flowing over the top of my head is no issue. Anyway I can't feel it. Water flowing over my nose and mouth when I try to breathe though is a no-no. ...
Yes, I know this very well. Worked last weeks on flat spearing and found some success for reduced bopping and more often easy breathing and an average stroke less per lap (not so much in LCM, but more than nothing...).

Second focus was/is less rotation. It seems possible in slower SR. 1.3sec is threshold for me. Faster I've to rotate more to get enough air and 1.3sec more than four laps the same has to happen. Flat spear and minimum rotation requires much very fine and aware work in head-neck-spine-position and "nod". Found the early-deep breathe sometimes leads to provoke the pause at recovery start, which Stuart often finds as beginner's mistake.

... Swimming as life long progress (hopefully)...

Best regards,
Werner
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  #27  
Old 02-14-2016
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
... Second focus was/is less rotation. It seems possible in slower SR. 1.3sec is threshold for me. Faster I've to rotate more to get enough air and 1.3sec more than four laps the same has to happen. ...
Interesting. From memory I find the opposite, that I rotate habitually more at slower tempos but at least start off quite flat when below say 1.15.

A couple of memories:
1. entry with the thumb/palm to the wall-ish results in a screwing into the water as you flatten the palm down. I've found that feels good but jnot pursued it (too many other "basic" things to focus on). That must produce a hydroplaning effect i.e a lift at the front (of course kick must be timed to keep rear end up!)
2. on head rotation the pillow is a good image as in that position (lying in bed on your side-ish(45', with your head on a pillow results in your head being at an angle - unless you go for a Japanese wood pillow) That's the position in which I think I get the bow wave on my nose feel and loads of breathing time.

I'll try pancaking on Tuesday and see what happens. My idea is: "Think hydroplane".
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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