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  #1  
Old 04-02-2013
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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WFEGb
Default Request for focus/drill advices....

Hallo,

think it's necessary to get some criticism and hints for my first Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XLJJD9xsjs

First lap was start of a TI-weekend second lap finished the TI-weekend. Disappointing to me, couldn't nearly find any improvement.

If you are generous, hope you'll find some steps from kicking Potbellied Pig directioned to TI.

For me the terrible kick (should be a 2BK), spearing too much upward particularly for breathing and not looking straight down are the biggest flaws. But how to get rid of them? In which order? Just drilling (which drills?) or install them into swimming (what I'ld really prefer much more.)

---

Some context, presumably not necessary to read to give hints and advices:

Started swimming 2 1/2 years ago. Selfcoached TI for 2 years just now. Here and there a few weeks break due to illness. 62 years take their toll.

Improved from 35min BS for 1500m to 30min FS. This year's goal, push this time from the 25m pool to 50m pool.

The showed video stroke is extreme slow even for me, thought it as fine demostroke. ARRRGHHH!

Last weeks before the TI-weekend I tried to fix my DPS with Terry's pyramids. Nearly 10 weeks as IanMac adviced for visible changes. But the results are not constant and irritating. Brought me two slight improvements: It became possible to "swim" with TT down to 0.96s (becoming more a soda machine than a swimmer), I'm now able to focus on something down to TT 1.30s.

An unpleasent constant are the times: 50s-60s for 50m in 25m pool and 60s-70s for a lap in 50m pool. (PB for 100m 1:35min)

Seems I'm trapped in a thing Charles wrote in an other thread.

Quote:
...If you ask someone to give less strokes per length, then there's a chance that that person puts more mental focus in stretching further up front to grab more water, ie increasing the reach. The thing though is that the big danger is to start building false feel for water. You feel it (and that lady has great feel for water), then you go hard on gestures that won't propel you forward. ...
I was happy to get part of one of very, very few TI-courses in Germany, but was very disappointed at least. 8 students, 2 very kind coaches. Had wished much more individual advices and corrections. Taught with the old DVD. The students group was very shy, nearly no talk between us. Maybe I'm being unfair but the hint: "Do 90% drills and do not swim..." was not what I'd liked to hear; even it maybe the only right way to TI...

Any hints and advices are very welcome!

Thanks at least for reading,
Werner

PS: Really do need an advice for a payable videocamera which can be easily mounted on different pool edges for under and above water to video myself some time.
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  #2  
Old 04-02-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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First thing that strikes me is how great your balance is when you don't breathe, ie you manage to do very smart things with your body, like pushing those hips up, upper body which behaves in harmony with this, all that well connected to your leg kick etc... but you loose all that when breathing. And that's because you stay there with your head flipped on the side for what appears to be forever ;-)

Then your lower body looses balance, legs create drag.

So I don't know, I guess first step was being told. Logically, if you could maybe turn your head along with the body but let the head coming back earlier once you finished inhaling, maybe you would be able to resume these smart things you do in order to remain on balance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
Seems I'm trapped in a thing Charles wrote in an other thread.
I wouldn't say this.

Well first it's worth noting that I am aware you're in a process at the mo, and that process has served you well thus far.

What strikes me is all you do to maintain good balance. What I mentioned in the other thread was that some put too much mental focus on the arm/hand, more specifically on everything that happens in the front quadrant.

You're 100% into balance and streamline at the mo.

Have you reached your max dps? Probably not very far obviously. There remain this breathing thing which causes your lower body to loose altitute.

Last edited by CharlesCouturier : 04-02-2013 at 02:07 AM.
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  #3  
Old 04-02-2013
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Werner,

I too think you are being a bit hard on yourself. There are a lot of good things in your swimming, your stroke is connected and you have strong forward thrust.

I did notice that you appear to have pauses in your exhalation, although not easy to see with the video angle/ lens quality.

Small sized video cameras have improved a lot in the last couple of years.

http://gopro.com/

The go pro hero seem to be very popular and versatile.

I have a similar model made by these guys http://www.veho-world.com/main/shop....gory=CAMMUVIHD it has 1080p res and works great.

I'm sorry you were disappointed with your Ti weekend but I'm not so surprised.

I think your interest level experience and curiosity in TI requires you to train with a master coach like Dave, Suzanne or Terry (Toby in the UK) as they will be able to answer your full list of questions.

I know if I were to sign up for a course now I would take this route.

Also, you like you're in your mid 40's in the pool video so it's all doing you good. Happy laps.
Andy.
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  #4  
Old 04-02-2013
mjm mjm is offline
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Default Breathing

Werner: I agree with the others: you have a nice relaxed stroke and look extremely comfortable in the water. Great work for being mostly self taught.

My comments would concern your breathing. You breathe every third stroke--so about 4 or 5 breaths per lap--and your stroke rate is under 40 strokes per minute. That is not a lot of oxygen per minute. No wonder you feel the need to take huge gulps of air. You might try increasing your stroke rate(gradually using a tempo trainer) and breathe every 2nd stroke.

When you breathe you look up first and that raises your head. This drops your hips and feet down. The you have a bent knee kick to get going level again. Try to keep the head relaxed and level and simply turn to breathe.

Finally, the toes point down a lot creating huge drag. Keep the toes, legs, hips and head all aligned--horizontal in the water. To get this feeling without breathing issues you might try a snorkel.

Best regards Werner. Mike
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  #5  
Old 04-04-2013
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hallo,

thanks for your very kind answers! Although hoped for little more detailed hints...

@Charles,
Quote:
...Have you reached your max dps? Probably not very far obviously. There remain this breathing thing which causes your lower body to loose altitute.
My max DPS is 12SPL in a 25m pool, but with longer glides and focused power into the push. When swimming my "distance stroke" it's more 16(begin)-20SPL(end). As wrote I can go with the TT down to 0.95s but then I do need at least 24SPL :-(

When doing some drills in the next weeks I think I've to focus on nodding and turn back looking down with my head as fast as possible.

@Andy,
Quote:
I did notice that you appear to have pauses in your exhalation, although not easy to see with the video angle/ lens quality.
Had a look on that yesterday. There are no real pauses in my exhales, but there's no steady stream. When putting force into the push it feels better to force my exhalation too. I previously asked that, but didn't get an answer if it's acceptable for TI or not...

Quote:
I think your interest level experience and curiosity in TI requires you to train with a master coach like Dave, Suzanne or Terry (Toby in the UK) as they will be able to answer your full list of questions.
Not so sure if I should bother a head coach at my level. But maybe, if it's possible I'd really like to stay a TI-week in UK or Turkey... Will save it in my head...

Thanks for your camera hints, will do a step into it next month. Can the camera be attached at the pool by myself with the supplied devices?

@ mjm,
Quote:
My comments would concern your breathing. You breathe every third stroke--so about 4 or 5 breaths per lap--and your stroke rate is under 40 strokes per minute. That is not a lot of oxygen per minute. No wonder you feel the need to take huge gulps of air. You might try increasing your stroke rate(gradually using a tempo trainer) and breathe every 2nd stroke.
Your very right! The videoed stroke should become a slow demostroke. At my march-pace I breathe every two. It's till now definitely necassery. (TT 1.35-1.45) One lap right side next lap left side. When drilling for less than 200m I take my gulp every three. (Would like to go to every three, but will become winded and am not able to catch an aerobic state.)

Quote:
Finally, the toes point down a lot creating huge drag. Keep the toes, legs, hips and head all aligned--horizontal in the water. To get this feeling without breathing issues you might try a snorkel.
How do you say: That's another spot on. Tried yesterday to focus on stretched toes. Completely other feeling. Good side effect: When stretching the toes the tendency to keep the knees straight(er) comes nearly by itself.

(Trunks, TT, watch, goggles (video camera in future) are far enough assistive devices, hope the snorkel will not become inevitable...)

Thanks again,
Werner
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  #6  
Old 04-04-2013
tomoy tomoy is offline
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Nice stroke Werner! Smooth, good timing on the 2BK, decent balance. Agree with all of the above, breathe more often, don't look forward, follow the shoulder with your breath.

Quick notes: try to breathe sooner-quicker. As soon as your recovery hand passes your hip grab a quick inhalation and turn your head back into the water ASAP. Try spearing a little less far out-forward, especially your left hand. Try spearing a little lower - just an inch or two - you're almost dead flat with your elbow, whereas your palm should be lowest, elbow next, shoulder highest.

Keep up the great work. It totally looks like TI already :-)
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  #7  
Old 04-05-2013
tony0000 tony0000 is offline
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Not bad. What strikes me first is that your kicks are large. But I can see you kicking large to keep your balance. That's good that you have that feel for body position, but big kicks are not the way to achieve good balance. I would try spearing deeper and really letting the momentum of your spearing arm pull your shoulders/chest down. That should get you more naturally balanced with out the big kick. FWIW.

Let me know if this helps.

Good luck,

Tony
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  #8  
Old 04-05-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
@Charles,
My max DPS is 12SPL in a 25m pool, but with longer glides and focused power into the push. When swimming my "distance stroke" it's more 16(begin)-20SPL(end). As wrote I can go with the TT down to 0.95s but then I do need at least 24SPL :-(
That's good!

As far as I'm concern, most if not all DPS work is done in time trial context, pretty much always. This insures that an optimal balance between rate and length be aimed for.

If at any given rate you improve the speed, it is without a doubt as a result of an AVG DPS / length improvement.

Besides, athletes love this sort of work as there's a bit of a challenge flavor to it. Since tempo is kept low, not that much effort (overall) gets thrown to it. You really get best of both world, makes the whole work more significant, clock becomes your coach.
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  #9  
Old 04-07-2013
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hallo tomoy,

Quote:
... Agree with all of the above, breathe more often, don't look forward, follow the shoulder with your breath.

Quick notes: try to breathe sooner-quicker. As soon as your recovery hand passes your hip grab a quick inhalation and turn your head back into the water ASAP. Try spearing a little less far out-forward, especially your left hand. Try spearing a little lower - just an inch or two - you're almost dead flat with your elbow, whereas your palm should be lowest, elbow next, shoulder highest.

When swimming what I call longer distance (1km-2km) I have to breathe every two strokes. Looking forward is a necessaty at my 25m pool (sometimes 4-5 people per single lane with very different paces), but I've to realize it as a bad habit and focus on that and turning my head with shoulders and a bit faster than them.

The deeper spear also a thing to work. Till now I don't know how to deal with the strange feeling when the back of my Hand causes drag as tiny as this may be felt...

Quote:
... It totally looks like TI already :-)
This great praise is certainly something flattering, but thank you very much.

Werner
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  #10  
Old 04-07-2013
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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WFEGb
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Hi tony0000,

Quote:
Not bad. What strikes me first is that your kicks are large. But I can see you kicking large to keep your balance. That's good that you have that feel for body position, but big kicks are not the way to achieve good balance. I would try spearing deeper and really letting the momentum of your spearing arm pull your shoulders/chest down. That should get you more naturally balanced with out the big kick. FWIW.
Yes, thank you! I'll work on that damned kick and the deeper spear will be the next. Have to get used to the new feeling with stretched toes and straighter knees. Think it will take some weeks.

BTW: Sorry, but what does FWIW mean?

Werner
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