Scissor kick

[Josefish]

I have always heard that I should avoid the scissor kick, that it's not good for stability, balance and had to work in order to avoid it completely.
Now accordinding to Shinji ( comments on facebook) doing it is great , as it stabilize your body and so on...And he is working on it
Now I am really confused about it..
Any advice ???

Thanks

Confused Josefish

[tiswimjapan]

Hi Josefish,

If you post your comment on my Facebook page, I would be happy to answer your question.

[Richardsk]

I believe that Shinji is using the term scissor kick to describe a variant of the two-beat with a wider separation of the legs or perhaps a kind of kick in which the legs move in opposite directions simultaneously,and not to describe the scissor kick as used in side stroke, which is regarded as a serious fault in freestyle.

[Talvi]

Really interesting!! I've been having thoughts about this myself. Watching videos of elite swimmers and the power they get from their legs I was struk by this scissor movement where one leg is recovering (rising) as the other is kicking (descending). But is that possible with a 2bk? Seems to me a great way to tame the splayed legs but via a 6bk?

[Richardsk]

It's just a hunch really, but I think Shinji may mean a kick like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG9e81gjbAA

It seems to me that the kick Manaudou is using is mainly a reaction to the very powerful movement of the shoulders and trunk. I think it is a variation of the shoulder driven style. The legs seem to be in constant motion, one rising while other drives down. The turnover seems rapid, although I haven't counted strokes per length.

Very beautiful in any case.

[trysixty]

Experimenting with Sun Yang's kick-glide pattern with TI....easy to learn and feels fast especially in OW.

[Zenturtle]

nice footage Richardsk.
I wouldnt be surprisesd if Shinji is moving a bit towards this kind of swimming for his open water faster swimming.
To me this is the most pure form of freestyle swimming.
Nice,simple. legs counteracting arm actions. Just like walking.

[CharlesCouturier]

Originally Posted by Zenturtle

nice footage Richardsk.
I wouldnt be surprisesd if Shinji is moving a bit towards this kind of swimming for his open water faster swimming.
To me this is the most pure form of freestyle swimming.
Nice,simple. legs counteracting arm actions. Just like walking.

If you don't switch to this kicking pattern, you can no longer maintain a clean 2bk at higher rate. So yes, if he wants to gain some speed, at some point this is a natural outcome.

[Zenturtle]

One of my most favorite clear shots of a racing 2BK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U72vWHxvn6c
Not so fluent as Manadous kick, but simple and effective.

[CharlesCouturier]

Almost as clean, probably just as good

I say probably because it's hard to tell. As you know, since you're leaving your foot down, if it goes outside the tunnel opened by your body, that's drag.

I guess most swimmers (top level) will go to the limit, so it's hard to tell from any angle but pure front if they sin or not.

This is an expectation I'd have about new technologies (drag measurement etc). If we could quantify both the positive and negative effects of kicking, then you can get the net. That is the speed gain/loss or null effect compared to the purity of performing at same arm stroke rate with a pull buoy.