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Old 09-10-2015
Tahevol Tahevol is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2015
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Tahevol
Default Strength of the 2 beat kick.

Over the last month I've been swimming 3 times a week, and things are progressing. I took 2 min from my 1000yards and brought the spl down from 24 to 21ish (goal <18).

Since the beginning I've had a pretty light 2 beat kick. Thats what I took away from the TI videos (maybe incorrectly).

Last week I started kicking harder. I don't know why. It's still a 2 beat kick, but when I kick, engage the core, and rotate the hips it was with a lot more force. I went a lot faster (10seconds/100). There must be some propulsive benefit beyond the kick itself.

Clearly I did things I've never done, because my lower abdominals were pretty sore. A good sore, not a bad sore.

Is this a common phenomenon? Are we supposed to kick with a fair amount of force?
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Old 09-10-2015
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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Sounds familiar to me, but you want the power, not excessive amplitude.
Maybe ask some other swimmers to check that, or use an adjustable ankle strap to limit movement.
It also depends on the speed. Shinji swimming relaxed uses a very low effort kick.
Pal Joensens 2BK is lot more violent. True kicking from the core.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAtLvd4CPcw
You probably doent need to do it this aggressive, but the basic movement is a good kcik action, not from the knee in any case.

Last edited by Zenturtle : 09-10-2015 at 09:37 PM.
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Old 09-17-2015
Talvi Talvi is offline
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I echo the OP's question. How strong is too strong? How to get the feel for the kick? TI is averse to using a board but maybe that's the only way?
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Old 09-17-2015
Janos Janos is offline
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Tahevol, in my opinion, you are on the right track. As long as the more forceful kick results in a decreased SPL, or lap time.
If you are using the catch correctly, you can only benefit from a more dynamic use of both kick and hips.
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Old 09-18-2015
tomoy tomoy is offline
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I see it as one of several tools to pull out in order to increase distance per stroke, and it has a direct energy cost. However, it takes advantage of different muscles. So by all means, yup, makes sense. And too much is a matter of maybe two components: if it breaks streamline to a degree that undermines the gains and if it wears your muscles down or requires more O2 than is available. Tempo trainer will tell you the former - your lungs will tell you the latter.

I'm happy to hear your muscles are aching, and not your back. Sometimes adding extra torque to the system, if unsupported, can result in a sore back the next morning.

I too have been guilty of the tiny 2BK and am regaining the purposeful snap. Coach David talks about foot strike. I'm finding that it takes a conscious effort to hold the "cocked" position on edge instead of relaxing into flat streamline. But that gives me a ~12" firing distance for my feet which seems to help my times.

Gauging how much is too much for longer distances is now a real challenge. 100-200M is no problem, the purposeful firing of the kick really helps. But extending (toning it down) for 1500M is another thing.
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  #6  
Old 09-21-2015
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomoy View Post
...I too have been guilty of the tiny 2BK and am regaining the purposeful snap. Coach David talks about foot strike. I'm finding that it takes a conscious effort to hold the "cocked" position on edge instead of relaxing into flat streamline. But that gives me a ~12" firing distance for my feet which seems to help my times.

Gauging how much is too much for longer distances is now a real challenge. 100-200M is no problem, the purposeful firing of the kick really helps. But extending (toning it down) for 1500M is another thing.
That resonates with me Tomoy :- holding the edge. I've been feeling the stroke as skating, with my extended sides, from fingers to toes, becoming the skate edges. I'm finding this a more helpful focus now than the image of tracks, as the width then defines itself and the focus becomes the rotation rather than the flat position.

Bringing my legs back from being just a trailing rotational drive sort of a thing I find drains my energy extremely quickly. I guess if you have energy to burn and need the extra speed then why not but at the moment at least I'm coming to the conclusion it's a bridge too far for the likes of me anyway.
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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