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  #1  
Old 05-01-2012
swimust swimust is offline
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swimust
Default The Shinji switch compared to the usual switch

Ok, 3 days ago I was averaging 11 SPL in slow pace (Shinji style) and felt like I conquered the oceans ("real progress at last"). I went back to the pool today with the sequence of actions in my head and.. nothing worked. lost... 60 minutes of tries, 90 minutes... then I started to work on the switch issue that Shinji "hints" about so much.

switch = the change of body weight from side to side.

I focused on the switch and remembered it visually. Real propulsion starts the moment the switch accures, not before that.
I found two things about the switch action:
1) One side counter balances the other. Its important to coordinate both sides at the moment of switch.
2) The sharper and sudden its done, the more propulsion I got. It involves core muscles.

After repeating the Shinji switches for a while, I found my lost propulsion and felt good again.
Until now I was focusing a lot on pulling, snap, arm angles, etc... Its clear to me now that the switch is the "core essence" of Shinji's swim.
"You have to do the switch right" - if you do that, you will get acceleration.

So, what I am trying to say is that I was swimming well few times in the past and I really did some good sessions but i didnt knew why! On those days I was doing the switch correctly without understanding what I am doing...

From what I understand, the Shinji switch is more forceful and sharp compared to Terry's switch which is gentle and moderate.

Shinji describes "shifting the lateral balance as a source of propulsion" here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachShinjiT View Post
And shifting my lateral balance to create propulsion. Since my hand stroke is a lot weaker than Terry's, I rely on my lateral balance shift to create propulsion more.

You can try the followings; You can push more if your hand is closer to the center line of your body, and you can rotate easier if you hand is wider than your shoulder line.
I believe that this post will cover for my past "nonsense"... :)
What could I do? I was just trying to learn TI. Nothing was intentional. I wasnt trying to annoy other people.
I would love to hear comments and learn more about the switch.
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  #2  
Old 05-01-2012
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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WFEGb
Default It's still greek to me...

Hallo,

read a lot, but it's still greek to me how rotation along the lateral axis will generate propulsion...

- I'm aware that a moveless lateral axis for rotation will reduce a lot of drag
- I'm aware that body rotation and the snap in right moment will help to a better inner stroke rhythm and optimal levers for used forces...

But we are no Archimedes' screws, so how to generate propulsion from roatation?

Where am I wrong?

Best regards,
Werner
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  #3  
Old 05-01-2012
MakoMike MakoMike is offline
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Swimust,
I agree with you, not to the extent that everything you have said previously is nonsense, but I tend to think the switch is when the real propulsion occurs.
WFEGb,
I agree with you as well. I don't think the actual roll generates the thrust. I think its just that the switch is the point where maximum thrust is generated by the co-ordination of arm pull and leg snap.
Of course I could be wrong!
Mike

Last edited by MakoMike : 05-01-2012 at 08:29 PM.
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  #4  
Old 05-01-2012
Mike from NS Mike from NS is offline
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Mike from NS
Default I may be incorrect as well ... but .....it's all about the timing

.... isn't it this lateral weight shift (aka :roll) which helps propel the spearing arm to its target in timing with 2bk and breathing at the right moment. Once the spearing arm is r e a c h i n g forward and we feel a bit of glide prior to the catch and pull etc, are we not very close the powerful part of the stroke? I visualize the youtube clip of Terry in the "classroom" presentation at a trade show where he describes the stroke with a torso twisting action at the same time of the spear.

Is this not the power that you felt swimust?

but .... I may be wrong .....

Mike
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  #5  
Old 05-02-2012
swimust swimust is offline
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swimust
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@MakoMike and Mike from NS,
First of all, I maybe wrong again like I was in the past.. but I can only tell what I understood yesterday:

You two, just like me until yesterday, do not understand how the Shinji trust is achieved and when.
"MakoMike" is not giving enough importance to the lateral shift, and "Mike from NS" missed it completely.
Again, to my understanding the Shinji way is different than the Terry way. Terry is not focusing so much on creating trust from lateral shift. Shinji says that himself in the quote on my first post here, but Shinji does focus on that.
Its all new to me and I need to focus so I wont lose this insight. Thats why I must go to the pool today.

Like others, I was focusing on muscles and limbs positions. I was not focusing on gravity change. I was not understanding that the shift of body weight from side to side is what really creates trust.
So now, I need to focus on my weight, where it is, and how to change side quickly and sharply to create trust. I need to do that without using too much power to avoid fatigue, its a fine line but with practice I will get better at that.
I was focusing too much on muscles, angles, limbs, instead of gravity changes.

Mike from NS, in your reply you are focusing on "limbs" just like I was doing. You say: "...lateral weight shift (aka :roll) which helps propel the spearing arm..."
To my understanding now, "lateral weight shift" is the engine and the MAIN action in Shinji swim. Its not "Helping the spearing arm". The spearing arm can move because of the body rotation which eliminates an outside vector of the arm. To create trust you have to feel the gravity change, and not just imagine the body roll and the body position.
Shinji does think of body positions but thats not the issue of trust and propulsion! I was confused in the same way as you are.

Thats how I see it now. I maybe very wrong of course. Only the pool will tell :)
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  #6  
Old 05-02-2012
Mike from NS Mike from NS is offline
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Mike from NS
Default deep thinking ... in a subtle way !

Swimust ............ what I do best is "completely missing things" ! Don't take that from me please..... but this is also the best way to learn as well......learning from our mistakes or misunderstandings.

Perhaps you may like to compare the weight shifts to the activiy of inline skating or even ice skating. Lots of weight shifts (and gliding) going on there for propulsion. Slightly similarly with skiing. Gravity is our main driving force; and to carve the perfect turn we learn how to control gravity to our advantage~ through shifting our weight. It's all about having good posture and being relaxed along with using good judgment to activate the perfect timing. Just like the feeling of the streamlined glide in the water, the feeling of riding the perfect carve on the snow is addictive!

I hope your pool experience went well today. Let's keep this thread going ~ we can all learn a lot from the things you are posting here.
Mike
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  #7  
Old 05-02-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Gravity is the premise of Perpetual Motion Freestyle. It's been there all along.

Shinji has studied the video extensively...and you should too. It will clear up many of your misunderstandings.
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  #8  
Old 05-03-2012
che9194 che9194 is offline
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che9194
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Here is a detailed technical article describing the role of hip rotation in swimming with a comparison to pitching a baseball.
http://www.coachesinfo.com/index.php...283&Itemid=138

It points out that "hip rotation contributes to the force ... by placing the anterior trunk muscles on a stretch initially that then act more strongly in assisting shoulder girdle rotation..."

I tried to find the referenced 1971 classic "Angular momentum and the popularity of the six beat crawl" but surprisingly couldn't find it at my local library.
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