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  #21  
Old 02-18-2012
ian mac ian mac is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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ian mac
Default A fan doesn't have to be a fanatic

Katy,
From my earlier posts, you are aware of my encouragement to you in using TI to obtain your goals for interval training. The posts in ninja pacing are really worthwhile. Look everywhere for inspiration, not just inside TI. Remember that Terry developed much of his philosophy from great swimmers who aren't understanding of TI. There is as much to learn outside of TI as inside.

I often disagree with my TI brethren. For example Fitz's disparaging comments about swimming 20 x 100 @1:15 shows a disdain that TI exclusive types seem to have to the swimming community at large. Albeit that particular set mentioned above is out of the range of about 98% of all masters swimmers, TI or not, it could still be a TI oriented set if we set out to do it in a mindful way:
1. Set TT @.88 and hold stroke count/50metre of 32 for the first 5 x 100
2. while maintaining TT @.88, try to eliminate 1 stroke/50 every successive group of 5 x 100.

Recently I did a variation of this with my non TI kid's/masters club with 10 x 100m @1:20 and did exactly as above. As I am training to attempt a 18:30 for the 1500m free, I was able to find much mindful TI oriented focus within this set. Believe me, at this red line ninja pacing, alignment, rotation,piercing are the only things on my mind. I am completely in the moment, which I believe is one of TI's fundamental principles. So please, enough from the naysayers- open your minds a little more and you can see TI possibilities everywhere.

Sometimes I even use fins(gasp!). I find that they can be useful in improving my ankle flexibility and leg strength.

My point is as always:first and foremost we are all swimmers. When you are in a swimming enviroment that is less TI oriented, you can always find the proper mindset from within to make it work without rocking the boat. Trust me, the other day while using the TT one of my club mates commented,'Gee I thought your head was going to explode like a bomb.' I laughed along with them and continued swimming mindfully.
Ian

Last edited by ian mac : 02-18-2012 at 06:07 PM. Reason: wanted to add 1 more thought
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  #22  
Old 03-29-2012
katypfarmgirl katypfarmgirl is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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katypfarmgirl
Default Thanks

I want to thank everyone who gave me their detailed and honest answers. I have been impressed with everyone's journey, it makes me realize we are ultimately all in the same boat with our athletic careers. Since the last post i applied all the information and of course watched the video another 100 times in slow motion for the fine points. I spent most of the winter only doing drills and have converted to a mile swim with the following thoughts/questions:

1. Clearly swim form is not an accident and is actaully fundamental. I have concluded at my stage of swimming after 25 yrs, that I will not every swim again not paying attention to this point. My old stroke is totally gone, and the TI stroke imprinted.
2. Using a Tempo trainer borders on the obvious vs the brilliant. I learned so much about what i was doing to myself througout the mile its no wonder I would get incr HR , breathless , anxious. Now I set SR, focus on glide/SPL and can predict in a very reproducible fashion my mile time. The TT is truly the key to teaching you pace relaxation and control over the long haul. I actaully find it balances your from left to right. I anticipate using it on most of my swims until I get sick of the beeping. I have it set at 1.2, 21-22 SPL, for a mile swim time of avg 28 min.
3. I plan on decreasing my overall mile time by tapping the TT rate towards 1.5 to see if i can eventually get my mi time to about 25. I think with what this device has showed me its actually a very attainable goal

4. One problem]: with the elbow circle, mailslot, entry across from my opposite elbow my Lat and delt on my nondominate side is sore. At first i thought it was over reaching in the glide, but it really seems using the elbow as a hinge must be irritating the muscles. I admit my left was my lazy arm in the past, i would do a wide low elbow swing. I have been more true to form and now am getting a bit worried about this. Any thoughts??

5. One question: as i try to improve my time i have always muscled the swim by using my upper body, arms to really push harder to go faster. WHen doing TI i definitely appreciate the 2 beat kick , core shift with spear. Are you guys pushing with your arms harder or are they an afterthought, relaxed just like the hand and arm with recovery??
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  #23  
Old 03-29-2012
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by katypfarmgirl View Post
...
5. One question: as i try to improve my time i have always muscled the swim by using my upper body, arms to really push harder to go faster. WHen doing TI i definitely appreciate the 2 beat kick , core shift with spear. Are you guys pushing with your arms harder or are they an afterthought, relaxed just like the hand and arm with recovery??
katypfarmgirl,

I am neither a very experienced nor a particularly fast swimmer but I just recently managed a 25m lap with 16 strokes at a TT rate of 0.9 - which is great for my standards. The way I did it was trying to recover really fast and bring my arm in front - and not pushing at all during the 'pull' phase, more having the arm anchored in it's position, just enough to feel the water resistance. Clearly the category of an afterthought, in fact even less than that.
Pushing harder just moves water backwards, tires you and doesn't make you noticeably faster.

My 2 (Euro-) cents..
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  #24  
Old 03-29-2012
ian mac ian mac is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 194
ian mac
Default The joy of TT

Katy,
Glad that you are getting the hang of using the TT. While I can't speak for others, personally when using the TT at a "fast" rate for me, I am mostly focusing on quick hip rotation especially rotating equally on both sides , mail slot entry and as few bubbles as possible upon entry. I do not concentrate on pulling or pushing hard. I do concentrate on trying to maximize my entry upon catch without overgliding and getting a good deep catch and follow through. Sometimes during recovery I try to visualize the comments of great Olympian and Texan Jim Montgomery, who writes about thinking like a gunslinger drawing his gun from his holster and quickly drawing and extending. A nice visual to go along with Terry's VW bug analogy regarding catch.

Keep up the great work.
ian mac
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  #25  
Old 03-29-2012
terry terry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katypfarmgirl View Post
I have TT set at 1.2, 21-22 SPL, for a mile swim time of avg 28 min. . . . I plan on decreasing ... the TT rate towards 1.5 to see if i can eventually get my mi time to about 25. . . . as i try to improve my time i have always muscled the swim by using my upper body, arms to really push harder to go faster. WHen doing TI i definitely appreciate the 2 beat kick , core shift with spear. Are you guys pushing with your arms harder or are they an afterthought, relaxed just like the hand and arm with recovery??
Katy
I'm not sure if you've answered this question, but I'm curious about the farm girl part of your handle. Grew up on a farm? Living on one now? Or a colorful image that you like? If you live on one now, what sort of farm and where?

Back to swimming -- a few thoughts about TT and speed.
1) I think it's wise to include slower tempo as part of your faster-mile project. If you can significantly increase Stroke Length (fewer SPL) by slowing tempo -- then maintain the new efficiency as you patiently recover the tempo you gave up -- you'll be really pleased with how easily new personal best times come.
Is your count of 21-22 in a 25y or 25m pool? And how tall are you?
2) A very consistent focus for all of us is to use the least power, and activate the least muscle possible to achieve any goal. Most often we seek to improve speed with the aid of the TT. This could be achieved in either of the following ways - using your metrics for the examples:

Reduce from 21-22 SPL @ 1.20 to 20-21, then 19-20. You'd do this by trying to execute each stroke with more care and precision, by reducing turbulence, noise and splash (evidence of drag), and by keeping the water molecules you're pressing back "quiet." The effect would be more ease.

Reduce from 21-22 SPL @ 1.20 to 1.18, 1.16, 1.14, etc. In this case you'd strive to maintain a sense of relaxation, leisure, and to splash or bubbles as you insert your hand and initiate catch more quickly.

We always keep in mind that any improved combination of SPL and Tempo results in a faster time. And we always strive to accomplish that new combination with the maximum ease and control possible. Thus we never strive to push or work harder.
__________________
Terry Laughlin
Head Coach & Chief Executive Optimist

May your laps be as happy as mine.

My TI Story
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  #26  
Old 03-30-2012
katypfarmgirl katypfarmgirl is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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katypfarmgirl
Default Farming

Teri, yes i am a farm girl! We run a small farm in NH where we produce beef for our label-Rock Farm Natural Beef...

So i am 5'7", 150lbs. Pool is standard issue 25 yd YWCA
I have been doing exactly what you detailed for optimizing speed. Although i am learning to swim better, i do have a focus on competition in triathalons and amongst those i swim with nearly daily in the summer on our OW swim club (really a bunch of friends, very fit, very strong, dedicated crowd).So yes i totally get the mind set but in there is the accomplishment of distance swimming results you have achieved in the racing you have done.
That being said...
THis week i started at 1.2 on TT, 22-23 SPL which i define as everytime my hand hits the water in 25 yd pool. I noted my overall time given how i felt my fitness output was and said that was easy. So i said if i glide further i will have decr SR sounds easier than more rpms. I then noted in fact i avg 21-22 with an faster time on 1.2 TT.
The next aspect of the plan is to simply get my SPL down as low as i can at a rate of 1.2 on tt. When it static, and ifeel like technique is at the best i can do, will then go up a little on SR and then repeat the SPL drill until either i am reaching the point i am really at my maximum enjoyable SR/SPL/ Mi time.
Then i really know who i am in the water just as i do as a runner. I can run 6's 7's 8's 9's on command, a skill i think i should have in the water.
Ultimately it really is quite fascinating to have learned this technique as I am getting a little long in the tooth. The thrashing that is emphasized in masters/traditional work outs is really not necessary and a heck of a lot less enjoyable.

SO given all the above, what is considered a reasonable mile pace all things considered for male or female 40-50 yrs of age??
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