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  #11  
Old 04-30-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Originally Posted by swim2Bfree View Post
It would be great to have an underwater perspective; that's where the most important stuff happens in swimming.

From above, it looks like you've been putting in some good work. Your stroke generally looks more fluid and refined than previous videos I've seen of you.

Bilateral breathing would be one area for improvement. A more streamlined push off the wall would be another, especially in a short-course setting.
Agreed, that's one of the challenges is getting good video, making time for it! Thanks for the complements (and I"m sorry I called you a name the other day.)

I feel much more fluid in the past 3 months especially... lost 15 lbs and been doing strengthening work, and I feel it's paid off in better vessel shaping, different distribution of bouyancy (more controllable in the hips!) and I can apply my improved upper body strength in the places I want it.

I do think an underwater view would show still the elbow leading the UW stroke a bit more than I'd like, but this feeling changes from day to day.

I do bilateral breath but breath more often to the right. in this video I think I wanted to breath towards the camera so I could see it better, but I'm not sure I was "that" thoughtful.

By more streamlined are you referring to just the distance of my pushoff? Because it's hard for me to pick out much detail due to the size of the image...but that's why i've posted here, to get feedback.
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  #12  
Old 04-30-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimust View Post
@ CoachSuzanne

Hi again, you changed your reply so I have more things to say/ask.


I don't try to have cheap shoots at you (I am not at your level as a swimmer or a coach), but me thinks its in every stroke because of the habit created by the breathing stroke. Its hard to change that habit when you do a full leg kick. Its a piece of cake to change when you "leg snap" like Shinji. In leg snap, The hip isn't connected with the upper body. When you "leg snap", just thinking about the over-rotation to the right will fix that easily.


Do you mean that you roll "like a log" and you don't do any "inner" torso twists? I understand that, but if you mean to something else then please explain this line.

Thanks for any tip and advice :)
I wasn't taking it as a cheap shot, I was just wondering if you saw a difference between breathing and non-breathing strokes in terms of body rotation. What else are you seeing besides the leg, or is that the main thing you are noticing?

I'm still unclear what a log roll and a torso twist are..I mean I can guess what you mean but since it's not clear I don't want to make assumptions.
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Fresh Freestyle

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  #13  
Old 04-30-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Originally Posted by swimust View Post
After 7 seconds, you stroke with your right arm and head in the water not breathing. In that stroke, your right leg spreads out (wide) and the kick creates over rotation. I am "sure" it happens because you need to breath on that side in other right hand strokes. No big deal, I am sure we all have bad habits of our own. Its a controlled, small over rotation anyway, its not a big over rotation.
I think I see the leg that you are talking about, but what "else" are you seeing that says over-rotation to you?
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Suzanne Atkinson, MD
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USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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  #14  
Old 04-30-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Originally Posted by rcrawf View Post
Hi Suzanne, really nice, first I remember that you were working hard on your left (I think it was left) hand recovery and entry, it now looks great! Almost symmetrical with your right entry, doesn't look quite as relaxed, but damn close. Congrats.

Your right arm spear extension jumps out to me, looks spectacular, very straight, extended, streamlined and on perfect track, can't see the left spear that well.

I think I detect a little sympathic movement in your non kicking leg, not unlike Terry. But I don't think your non kicking leg is remaining perfectly still and just drafting within streamline. It would be easier to see from under water, but I have spent a lot of energy on quieting that pesky non kicking leg, as a focal point I can keep them still, but that extraneous movement creeps back in quite easily.

At first your elbows didn't look very high on recovery, but when I froze your recovery, it looked quite nice.

More power from your kick? I don't know your intent, just kick for indirect leverage and help with rotation, or direct propulsion or both.

Beautiful stroke, just take care of that shoulder, we count on your expertise for not only swimming but healing and injury prevention. Keep up all the great work.

Thanks for sharing, Rich
Rich, thank you very much. I agree with all of your comments. Left hand is MUCH improved and it's a frequent focal point, but the width of entry as well as the shoulder of that left side (that's not the one that bothers me by the way).

Thanks to coach Dave Cameron's observations last August my legs are much more still between kicking than they used to be but they do flap around more than I'd like. I did overhead video of myself last week (well I didn't...a swimmer of mine did) and there was much more leg movement width wise than I wanted. (I'm not sure if this is the same movement that swimust is referring to)

I think my elbow recovery is a b+ or maybe a b. It's better than it used to be, could be a bit better still when isloated, but the issue of shoulder health comes in if this bit is forced too much, so I'm not sure how much of what you see is old habit vs. unconscious protection?

Power from the kick...I've worked to mostly change the timing of the kick as I used to have a very late kick that gave me zero propulsion and just rolled my hips side to side (overrotated!)

With the body mass changes (my hips are much smaller than the were over the past 2 years), I'm still recalibrating this things and can perform an even smaller kick and still get hip rotation, so as usual, a work in progress.

Thanks for all the feedback and comments. I've enjoyed this long term project and hope to continue it.
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Fresh Freestyle

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  #15  
Old 04-30-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Nothing short than one of the best swim strokes I've seen given your body shape and from what I know from you.

It's so refreshing, it's like fresh cocktail under the sun on pacific beach. You've been all over the world swimming in blue waters, we can tell.

Bravo.

Oh and the balance. Wow wow wow.

Last edited by CharlesCouturier : 04-30-2013 at 08:49 AM.
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  #16  
Old 04-30-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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See this? Awesome.

You have the body weight + the weight of the recovering arm, and timing with the catch is perfect. All that is perfectly aligned, sinking the catch hand nicely. Very nice optimisation of body rotation. Limbs are aligned to exploit it fully. One adds some weight at the right time, and she's rolling here catch under her using body rotation. Notice that front shoulder is significantly forward, which is what we want. Requires relaxation. If the shoulders are held stiff, this won't be achieved.

I still wished that the catch was occurring more progressively though, but this might be an area where we will never agree and it's fine (transition from skate to catch, I like that to be more continuous).

Lower down the body, look at those legs, perfectly hidden, and at top of the surface.

Work needs to be done on leg kick. (Swimust), I would wish cleaner flicks ;-) to get ride of the strange comeback which almost creates a cross over kick, somethings isn't entirely clear. But it's not opening that wide, and the most important thing is there: it's well at the surface. Great core work, lowerback, etc...

Sorry Coach Stu, I stop there :) (already too wordy I know)

Last edited by CharlesCouturier : 04-30-2013 at 03:17 AM.
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  #17  
Old 04-30-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
I think I see the leg that you are talking about, but what "else" are you seeing that says over-rotation to you?
Yes, I mean to the body over-rotation just as you suspected, not (just) the leg.
Your right leg kicks harder than the left leg (left leg is perfect), the right leg goes wide in order to get a bigger momentum in the body rotation just before the breathing moment. You get a power from the leg that is used in the body rotation. That extra power is causing the leg go wide and it sends the body itself into over rotation. You do it for breathing purpose, but it remains there in the other right arm strokes when you do not breathe.
Anyways, you control that action and its just a small over rotation. No big deal I guess.
You know what?.. Maybe its not "over" rotation at all. You just rotate more on the right side. Who said its "over rotation"?
Its "more rotation", not "over rotation". It sounds better :) but, we should keep equal rotation on both sides I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
What else are you seeing besides the leg, or is that the main thing you are noticing?
I cant find any other fault in the swim at the moment, I will try my best to find more ;)
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Last edited by swimust : 04-30-2013 at 06:39 AM.
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  #18  
Old 04-30-2013
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
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Great, doc, I'll call you Sun Yang's little sister from now on ;-)

Very nice and rhythmic stroke, very continuous, good balance, I wish I could do this. Very relaxed, fast stroke. I like it.

It is a very steady 1.0 per stroke, did you swim with a TT?

And it is a SPL of 20 (and a bit) not 21, or do you count the initial underwater 'pull'?
The pushoff is quite short, you do the underwater stroke in less than two seconds after started. I usually do the underwater stroke at the third beep and the first hand entry at the fourth. And beeps here would be a second each.

The camera angle is a bit misleading, so underwater shots would be great. But I am quite sure that there is no over-rotation. In your breathing strokes the leading left arm is remaining on it's wide tracks, so that looks ok. Although it seems that your left arm stays a little longer in the spear position in breathing strokes than in non-breathing strokes, also there is a small tendency that the (left) hand scopes up in breathing strokes only.

The legs could be a little quieter, but I am not sure if that has any effect on resistance of efficiency, or is aesthetically only.

The most splashes you do with your hand leaving the water.

Also I agree with Charles.

It is difficult to find faults, I need more time...

Great!
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  #19  
Old 04-30-2013
craig.arnold@gmail.com craig.arnold@gmail.com is offline
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It looks great to me Suzanne.

I agree with Charles. Fantastic balance. Smooth and clean. Controlled extension - due to shoulder pain!! Just great adaptation there, but without compromising the stroke - only probably a slight performance hit.

I think it would be fun to try out Charles' suggestion. Check out some of the videos of Keri-Anne Payne, try to make your stroke a bit more like hers. :P

Specifically there is just slightly more of a rotary motion in the front quarter catch than the spear-and-switch motion, but keep all the brilliant stuff on the recovery, hand-entry, catch position and rotation that is working so well.
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  #20  
Old 04-30-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesCouturier View Post
...(Swimust), I would wish cleaner flicks ;-) to get ride of the strange comeback...
not again! :)
She KICKS, she doesn't flick. If she flicked then she couldn't have generated the body rotation.
That's because Student Suzanne ;) doesn't swim the Shinji style at present, so better leave her with a KICK for now... :)

tomatoes are not potatoes!
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Last edited by swimust : 04-30-2013 at 08:58 AM.
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