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Old 08-01-2011
armagh armagh is offline
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 17
Default First time trying this set...won't be the last

Pool is currently set up LCM, so these are 50 meter results.

(added the next two out of curiosity)

At 2.0 my axial stability was seriously compromised, graphically demonstrating the value of using the lead hand as an anchor and manitaining stability with core muscles. Some good insights into improving skating practice came from this interval.

The other obvious result is in the the fewer strokes taken on the down side of the pyramid. I plan to repeat this, probably every other week for a while.
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Old 08-23-2011
TomH TomH is offline
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 32

In a 25y pool, I don't remember all of the numbers, just at the top and bottom laps:

1.30 14
1.50 11
1.30 13

Worked nicely for me, I now have a goal of swimming 200 y at 13 to 14.

After this set, I swam a number of 150 to 200 yard sets at 14 to 15 SPL. Usually, the first 2 laps were easy at 14, and by the time I was finishing lap 3 or 4, a SPL of 15 was hard or impossible to maintain. I would stop the set as soon as I swam a lap where I couldn't hold 15.

Now I am curious about 50 m results for this exercise, I'll try to get to a 50 m pool next week and will post the results.
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Old 09-27-2011
celeslau celeslau is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 7
Default How frequent is too frequent for neurally-specific training

Originally Posted by terry View Post
That's why I like the magic of 'speed math' and favor neurally-specific, over aerobically-generic, training.
I'm a little late in catching on this thread here, but achieved personally amazing results using the suggested TT sets by Terry. I'm 5"4' and managed to reduce my SPL for 50m from 55 to 44 with TT at 1.6 on my very first attempt.

My question here is, since practice sets like these are what Terry refers to as 'neurally-specific' instead of 'aerobically-generic', am I over doing it if I practice them on alternate days in my enthusiasm? Does my neural circuits need to take a 'break' and revisit these sets a week/couple days later? Esp when I see no further improvements, or worst deteriorate from earlier achievements?

There was another post in this thread where Terry mentioned, 'If you're successful at finishing the set at a lower count than you started, try again a few days or a week later...' Not tomorrow?

Does less = more like in the 'go slow to go fast' concept?
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Old 11-14-2011
terry terry is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,305
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Default Neurally-specific Practice 11-14-11

I wouldn't worry about doing neurally-oriented or neurally-specific training. In fact, it's the ONLY kind I do. Here's today's practice. A little background. I returned last Tuesday (Nov 8) from three weeks in Turkey and Israel. I was fortunate to have been able to do over 40km of sea swimming during my 10 days in Israel. But I hadn't practiced for a week prior to today. My last swim was 3.2km in the Mediterranean last Monday Nov 7. For the past five days I've been working our Coach Certification Course in Coral Springs and lacked time (and energy) to practice. We finished the course at 2pm today and 30 minutes later I was in Coral Springs' 50m pool Here's what I did.

Set #1
16 x 100 Asymmetric Tempo Pyramid - counting strokes with a goal of reducing strokes/100.
I swam with the following tempo's
6 x 100 Slowing Tempo - 1.25 - 1.30 - 1.35 - 1.40 - 1.45 - 1.50
I took 77 strokes @ 1.25 which I reduced to 64 strokes @ 1.50.
Then 10 x 100 Progressively Faster Tempo as follows
I took only 73 strokes for 100m @ 1.20

What does this mean with regard to time?
77 strokes @ 1.25 (adding 6 beeps for pushoffs = 1m 43s
73 strokes @ 1.20 = 1m 34s
So 4 fewer strokes and faster tempo resulted in 9 sec improvement in 100m pace.

Set #2
5 x Broken 200 (150 Cruise - Rest 10 beeps - 50 Strong)
I did these @ 1.20-1.23-1.22-1.21-1.20
I generally held 37-38 SPL during the 150s and improved by 3 SPL on the final 50m after resting 10 sec. That final 50 was markedly more effortful.
Terry Laughlin
Head Coach & Chief Executive Optimist

May your laps be as happy as mine.

My TI Story
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Old 11-15-2011
jenson1a jenson1a is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Southwest Florida
Posts: 671

Is this type of practice also beneficial to a person who still has basic issues? Issues like legs not being straight, streamline, still experiencing drag?

I have tried this on 3 separate occasions and have gotten widely varied results--nothing like what others have been reporting. On the first 2 tries, I was using a very exaggerated 2 beat kick with legs flailing alll over the place. On the last try, I got increased spl but I was less tired and not out of breath so much.

I guess what I am asking is at what stage do you start introducing some of these sets?
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Old 11-15-2011
terry terry is offline
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Originally Posted by jenson1a View Post
I guess what I am asking is at what stage do you start introducing some of these sets?
These sets work best when you have well-developed Balance and Streamlining skills. If you feel legs flailing, you're not there yet.
Terry Laughlin
Head Coach & Chief Executive Optimist

May your laps be as happy as mine.

My TI Story
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Old 11-26-2017
CoachJohnnyWiden's Avatar
CoachJohnnyWiden CoachJohnnyWiden is offline
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: LuleŚ, Sweden
Posts: 19
Default Is age just a number?

Originally Posted by johnny.widen View Post
As you guaranteed Terry, I improved my stroke length today:


... I did the following, with a three beep push off this time, however hard for low tempo. I almost lost speed before the first stroke.

Tempo Stroke/length
1.6 12, 12
1.7 11, 11
1.8 11, 11
1.9 11, 11
2.0 10-, 9
1.9 10, 10
1.8 10, 10
1.7 11, 11
1.6 11, 11
1.5 11, 11

1.4 12, 12
1.3 12, 12
1.2 12, 12
1.1 13, 13
1.0 14, 14
1.0 14, 14
1.0 14, 14
1.0 14, 14

-- Johnny
This was six years ago!

In my Fast Forward (Smart Speed) group we followed this thread and yesterday we ran the following session and here is my result

25x50 with a small pause at each turn
1.60 13, 13
1.70 12, 12
1.80 12, 12
1.90 11, 11
2.00 11, 11
1.95 11, 11
1.90 11, 11
1.85 11, 11
1.80 11, 11
1.75 11, 11
1.70 11, 11
1.65 11, 11
1.60 12, 12

1.55 12, 12
1.50 12, 12
1.45 12, 12
1.40 12, 12
1.35 13, 13
1.30 13, 13
1.25 13, 13
1.20 13, 14
1.15 14, 14
1.10 14, 14
1.05 14, 14
1.00 14, 14

The guarantee still applies! :-)
I couldnít repeat what I did six years ago. Could it be an age issue or is age really just a number? 63 then, 69 today.
Or is it something else? I have been practicing less than usual this Summer and Autumn, that could be one reason. I might also have put in more effort six years ago. I donít remember. I will try it later on with more power and see if there is a difference and if I can repeat the nine stroke length.
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