Me vs STS

[CoachSuzanne]

Zenturtle's recent thread got me wondering...how much do I resemble Shelly Taylor Smith?

STS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt6_bqj_808

Me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOtSZi9lHHc

[Zenturtle]

Ha,ha. yeah I think your basic movement mechanism isnt that far off indeed.
I am sure this style is linked much to body type and natural balance.
You also have nice flexible ankles that give a different feel on the top of the foot to the water thats helps to give a good vertical anchor at the very rear end of the body.
Together with the long lever to the lungs this little surface is very effective to adjust balance.
Wjen I dont point my toes the foot just slip through the water making the whole leg movement a waiste of energy.
Cant you get some underwater side views and front and rear views just like in the STS footage to compare?

[s.sciame]

Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne

Zenturtle's recent thread got me wondering...how much do I resemble Shelly Taylor Smith?

STS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt6_bqj_808

Me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOtSZi9lHHc

Oh yes, both beautiful strokes! Your 2bk from above water looks very similar to Shelley's one, it would be nice to see an underwater view too. I noticed that she (and perhaps you too) keeps the feet quite apart and not brushing each other as it is often recommended in order to keep legs and feet in a narrow hole. Is that because like this you get more lever to drive body rotation? Shelley also has pretty wide feet, they seem to grip on the water as if they were paddles.

Another thought: your strokes look very similar to me, meaning that with that stroke AND proper training you could do amazing things like Shelley did. Now, this is a very technique oriented forum, people seem much more interested in technical details than training methods.

Is it too simplistic to say that in the end it's all about proper training? And that learning how to properly train (eg the right prescription, how to vary the sets, periodization etc.) is really an art and makes all the difference? Elite athletes (not only swimmers) with many years of experience and mastery are supposed to know everything about theirselves and their sport. Yet they still rely on a coach. If they self-coached they could go totally wrong, despite their large experience.

Salvo

[CoachSuzanne]

Originally Posted by Zenturtle

Ha,ha. yeah I think your basic movement mechanism isnt that far off indeed.
I am sure this style is linked much to body type and natural balance.
You also have nice flexible ankles that give a different feel on the top of the foot to the water thats helps to give a good vertical anchor at the very rear end of the body.
Together with the long lever to the lungs this little surface is very effective to adjust balance.
Wjen I dont point my toes the foot just slip through the water making the whole leg movement a waiste of energy.
Cant you get some underwater side views and front and rear views just like in the STS footage to compare?

Yes of course I'll try! It's hard to get a camera person who can capture video and an underwater camera (my pole broke!) all in the same place with a pool with clear water. :)

Thaks for the comments, much appreciate.

[CoachSuzanne]

Originally Posted by s.sciame

Oh yes, both beautiful strokes! Your 2bk from above water looks very similar to Shelley's one, it would be nice to see an underwater view too. I noticed that she (and perhaps you too) keeps the feet quite apart and not brushing each other as it is often recommended in order to keep legs and feet in a narrow hole. Is that because like this you get more lever to drive body rotation? Shelley also has pretty wide feet, they seem to grip on the water as if they were paddles.

Another thought: your strokes look very similar to me, meaning that with that stroke AND proper training you could do amazing things like Shelley did. Now, this is a very technique oriented forum, people seem much more interested in technical details than training methods.

Is it too simplistic to say that in the end it's all about proper training? And that learning how to properly train (eg the right prescription, how to vary the sets, periodization etc.) is really an art and makes all the difference? Elite athletes (not only swimmers) with many years of experience and mastery are supposed to know everything about theirselves and their sport. Yet they still rely on a coach. If they self-coached they could go totally wrong, despite their large experience.

Salvo

THanks for the comments! I agree that with training I could be very fast. As you may or may not recall I am coming off a long recovery from a neck injury. this video is after about a year of me doing no longer than 500-800 swims with the exception of 5 1650yd practices in the prior 3 weeks...and this video followed 1 day prior of doing a fully technique oriented set.

Personally I feel that fitness rather than technique has been my limiter primarly due to time constraints and recently by physical constraints.

Thanks again .

[Danny]

Originally Posted by s.sciame

Oh yes, both beautiful strokes! Your 2bk from above water looks very similar to Shelley's one, it would be nice to see an underwater view too. I noticed that she (and perhaps you too) keeps the feet quite apart and not brushing each other as it is often recommended in order to keep legs and feet in a narrow hole. Is that because like this you get more lever to drive body rotation? Shelley also has pretty wide feet, they seem to grip on the water as if they were paddles.

Another thought: your strokes look very similar to me, meaning that with that stroke AND proper training you could do amazing things like Shelley did. Now, this is a very technique oriented forum, people seem much more interested in technical details than training methods.

Is it too simplistic to say that in the end it's all about proper training? And that learning how to properly train (eg the right prescription, how to vary the sets, periodization etc.) is really an art and makes all the difference? Elite athletes (not only swimmers) with many years of experience and mastery are supposed to know everything about theirselves and their sport. Yet they still rely on a coach. If they self-coached they could go totally wrong, despite their large experience.

Salvo

Legs apart and legs together is an issue that I play with as well and try to understand the differences in the two approaches. My impression from my own experiments is that legs together leads to more rotation from the hips with some knee bending on the downstroke, whereas legs apart leads to more active kicking from the lower pelvis with a straight leg. Both of you seem to have a relatively straight leg with very little knee bend. Do you agree? What differences do you see in the two approaches?

[Zenturtle]

I hope to see some similar underwaterfootage.
STS has one of the most hydromechanically efficient underwater actions I can imagine in that stroke style, so dont be offended If yours isnt as perfect.
The basics look alike, but the devil is in the detail. STS maybe could enter here arm a few degrees steeper to get less bubble and less lost water downward pressure at the front, so she is not perfect either.
I have said this earlier but you seemed to disagree in the past. Compared to STS there is at least still a lot of improvement potential in your underwater arm movement. It is simply slipping too much.(taling about the fastest 100)
Well, we will see the differences if you have some good underwaterfootage.

I agree with Salvo about the fittness component. You have a nice going rhythm and roll through the water in your stroke but it starts to look like hard work after a few lengths. Thats the lacking fitness I guess.

Nitpicking:
I think you carry your left arm a bit too far over the water. Looks tiring on the deltoids now. Better to let it slip in fingers first a few inch earlier.