Total Immersion Forums  

Go Back   Total Immersion Forums > Freestyle
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-19-2008
socalsteve socalsteve is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6
socalsteve
Default Still Pushing Water Back

I've gone through the book and DVD. My SPL for a single length has gotten down to 12 (one time at 11.5). I use Fistgloves during practice which typically add 2 spl. However, when I take them off, it feels like my main propulsion is coming from my hand pushing back. I'm slippery, narrow, aligned, rotating, driving hip down, reaching forward, looking down, swimming front quadrant, all of that, but I still feel like I'm pushing water back.

This doesn't match-up with what I'm supposed to be doing (body propulsion). Can anyone offer any advice?

Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-20-2008
daveblt daveblt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 820
daveblt
Default

It sounds as if you are doing everything right and with that low stroke count so you may be confused about what you are actually feeling when you take the fistgloves off . Your hands should feel as if you are anchoring and pulling as if you had a pair of pie plates attached and moving at a speed that is matched than your core movements. Is this not what you are feeling ?


Dave
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-20-2008
socalsteve socalsteve is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6
socalsteve
Default

I believe my hands are moving faster than my body. I feel the pressure on my hands and forearms, but I can feel the water moving past them. Does this make sense? I'm thinking I should feel slight pressure but nothing too major. If I swim with my fingers open or in a fist I go slower, and with fistgloves I feel like I'm pushing with my arms.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-20-2008
daveblt daveblt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 820
daveblt
Default

You may be concentrating too much on the pulling arm .Once you make your catch it may be a good idea to get the pulling arm out of mind and concentrate on spearing forward instead .


Dave
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-20-2008
madvet madvet is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 230
madvet
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by socalsteve View Post
...., it feels like my main propulsion is coming from my hand pushing back. I'm slippery, narrow, aligned, rotating, driving hip down, reaching forward, looking down, swimming front quadrant, all of that, but I still feel like I'm pushing water back....
.
I have never really gotten that "pulling arm is just holding still" type of sensation that many people report. I think it is a matter of perception and it is just not an image that comes naturally to me, and probably you too. All the other things are great things to focus on, so I would focus on those things. The fact is, that the pulling arm produces the propulsion (the body provides the leverage (not the propulsion))
__________________
John Carey
Madison, Wisconsin
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-22-2008
socalsteve socalsteve is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6
socalsteve
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by madvet View Post
I have never really gotten that "pulling arm is just holding still" type of sensation that many people report. I think it is a matter of perception and it is just not an image that comes naturally to me, and probably you too. All the other things are great things to focus on, so I would focus on those things. The fact is, that the pulling arm produces the propulsion (the body provides the leverage (not the propulsion))
That's exactly my point. I don't get it. If I pull back with open fingers as opposed to closed fingers I go slower. If I let myself "glide" over my hand, I stop in a stroke or two.

Is it maybe just not pushing back hard? I don't see any other way to propel myself than using my arms to push back. If I put my hands in front of me or to my sides, and don't kick, and start gyrating from side to side, I don't go anywhere.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-22-2008
socalsteve socalsteve is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6
socalsteve
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveblt View Post
You may be concentrating too much on the pulling arm .Once you make your catch it may be a good idea to get the pulling arm out of mind and concentrate on spearing forward instead .
I'll give this a shot, but I still see myself pushing back with my hand.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-24-2008
RadSwim RadSwim is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 201
RadSwim
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by socalsteve View Post
This doesn't match-up with what I'm supposed to be doing (body propulsion). Can anyone offer any advice?

Thanks.
Steve-

On the old discussion forum, I wrote at length about how I got tripped up by the "glide over your anchored hand" metaphor.

I could feel the "gliding" or "vaulting" sensation when I anchored and then focused on spearing with the opposite hand.

However, I ended up with a weird underpowered stroke that I have spent the last 15 months changing.

As you have correctly surmised, swimming power comes from transmitting energy from the combined actions of kicking, rotating, and pulling to the water through your pulling hand, wrist and forearm. The concept of powering your stroke by "spearing forward" is a metaphor -- it kinda feels like that -- but it doesn't really happen that way.

The mystical part is that you can learn to optimize your pull, in part, by focusing of what your leading or "spearing" hand is doing. It's a bit like focusing on the "mystical third eye" when meditating.

In practical terms, de-emphasizing the pulling hand allows you to learn to feel what the rest of you body is doing: leading hand, head, shoulders, hips, feet are all good areas on which to focus at different times.

Where am I now? I am well beyond the weird underpowered stroke. With my new high elbow catch and more powerful pull, I still feel a sensation sort of like "gliding" when I get my core power synchronized properly with my pull. The best analogy that I can offer is the sensation of rhythmically ice skating. You feel the power in your pushing foot as your leading foot glides and your body sways gently back and forth.

Swimming is like that. I get a lot of feedback from pressure against my pulling hand, while I enjoy the feeling of my leading hand gliding and my body gently, but powerfully, rotating.

My advice, drop the anchor (sorry, couldn't resist)....learn to optimize your pull and coordinate with your core. If you can master it, learning a high-elbow catch is worth the effort. But also, tune into all of your body parts and learn how changes in their movement effect your stroke. Then, you will have a beautiful glide.

RadSwim

Last edited by RadSwim : 12-24-2008 at 09:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-24-2008
socalsteve socalsteve is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6
socalsteve
Default Still Pushing Water Back

Thanks Rad -

Great analogy to skating, I'll think of that next time I'm in the pool. Reaching more with my spearing arm and not worrying so much about the recovering arm.

I have achieved the "gliding" sensation before - it's a terrific feeling and I find that I can achieve it frequently, so I guess I'm on the right course. I'll try more for that, because when I do feel it everything clicks: it feels like I'm swimming downhill, it's easy, effortless, and the feeling of the water going by is great.

Steve
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-24-2008
madvet madvet is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 230
madvet
Default

Radswim -- Which side do you breathe on? Is it your dominant or non-dominant side?
__________________
John Carey
Madison, Wisconsin
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.