Total Immersion Forums  

Go Back   Total Immersion Forums > Freestyle
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 04-27-2013
DD_l_enclume DD_l_enclume is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 121
DD_l_enclume
Default

Lovely video indeed.
But something strikes me :
1) How come an Olympic swimmer is *learning* to swim the TI way. Surely, she had an efficient stroke before, right ?
2) How come an Olympic swimmer is receiving advice from a forum where people like me are just learning to swim. Shouldn't it be the other way around ?
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 04-27-2013
CoachAnnaKarinLundin CoachAnnaKarinLundin is offline
Coach
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 6
CoachAnnaKarinLundin
Default

But something strikes me :
1) How come an Olympic swimmer is *learning* to swim the TI way. Surely, she had an efficient stroke before, right ?
2) How come an Olympic swimmer is receiving advice from a forum where people like me are just learning to swim. Shouldn't it be the other way around ?

Thanks for comments!
1) In my own coaching, I didn't have the right tools to educate my triathletes/swimmers and I found TI as an extremely good way to create intelligent swimmers. It didn't matter if I was a former Olympian. I have swum endless of meters without understanding how it all fits together. Now I know.

2) To instruct TI-swimmers properly I had to rearrange and transform my own swimming into TI. Sure, I had a quite efficient stroke back then but had to broke down my swimming into pieces and build it all up again, focal point by focal point. Being an Olympic swimmer have helped, some things come naturally, but some don't. Now I donīt swim a meter without thinking what I do and that is very stimulating - I'm committed to continuous improvement.


TI Coach Anna-Karin
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 04-28-2013
terry terry is offline
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,305
terry has disabled reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachAnnaKarinLundin View Post
To instruct TI-swimmers properly I had to rearrange and transform my own swimming into TI. Sure, I had a quite efficient stroke back then but had to broke down my swimming into pieces and build it all up again, focal point by focal point. Being an Olympic swimmer have helped, some things come naturally, but some don't. Now I donīt swim a meter without thinking what I do and that is very stimulating - I'm committed to continuous improvement.
Coach Anna-Karin shows that she exemplifies two precepts of TI practice philosophy
1) Kaizen - Continue learning and improving for life.
2) 'Never swim a stroke in vain.' (thanks to Hadar Aviram)
__________________
Terry Laughlin
Head Coach & Chief Executive Optimist

May your laps be as happy as mine.

My TI Story
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 04-28-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,244
CharlesCouturier
Default

Who's Hadar Aviram?
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 04-29-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
Coach
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,453
CoachSuzanne
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesCouturier View Post
Who's Hadar Aviram?
TI Swimmer, Open Water camp graduate, prisoners rights advocate, professor of law AND recent Tampa Bay marathon swimmer whom i remotely trained for the event. in a race where only 6 of 18 soloists finished and a support boat sank, (YES, SANK!) she completed 18 of the 24 miles and set many PBs in training. Her main reason for hiring me to train her was because she never wanted to "swim a stroke in vain" and needed a coach who understood that persective.

She is an all around "rock star" as we say. ;)
__________________
Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 04-29-2013
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 787
haschu33
Default

What's the connotation of not to 'swim a stroke in vain' ? It could vary from make sure it moves you forward, make sure you learn from each single stroke, make sure to enjoy each stroke, make sure to keep your focus with every stroke, etc

I would favor the last, always keep a focus. Although I basically strive for continuous improvement, there are a number of strokes or even laps that I do for just enjoying them. Which requires to keep a focus. But not on improving.

I just don't want to become an improvement fanatic that looses the fun.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 04-29-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
Coach
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,453
CoachSuzanne
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by haschu33 View Post
What's the connotation of not to 'swim a stroke in vain' ? It could vary from make sure it moves you forward, make sure you learn from each single stroke, make sure to enjoy each stroke, make sure to keep your focus with every stroke, etc

I would favor the last, always keep a focus. Although I basically strive for continuous improvement, there are a number of strokes or even laps that I do for just enjoying them. Which requires to keep a focus. But not on improving.

I just don't want to become an improvement fanatic that looses the fun.
i wouldnt overread into it. Hadar was absolutely beaming with joy when they pulled her out of the water at 18 miles. every stroke was delightful. if its no longer delightful then id say it may be in vain.
__________________
Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 04-29-2013
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 787
haschu33
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
... if its no longer delightful then id say it may be in vain.
:-))


Anne-Karin - great work!
It's a pleasure for the eye to watch it. I think the great balance and the amazing body control is the advantage that long-time swimmer have, although not all perfect that to the degree shown here.

A few remarks.
You have a very patient leading hand. You could easily model for a front-quadrant swimming ad. When your recovering arm re-enters the water you just started the catch. When Terry and Shinji reenter their hand, they already finished the catch and the anchoring arm is already on shoulder level.
I watched your stroke in the underwater part frame by frame and found the following: it took around 43 frames from one hand entry to the next, in a 25 frame video this is roughly 1.7 seconds for each stroke. So maybe this was a bit slow motion.
In that after your spearing arm reached it's target your body rotation stopped completely for almost 20 frames. In other words you rotate a good half of a stroke, than pause rotating for almost half, and then rotate again.
Since you are gliding very stable in that non-rotation part it means that you have an extremely good balance. It also means that this is a slow stroke pattern.

Secondly your underwater finish also is very long. The hand goes all the way down to the thigh and when the elbow comes out of the water there is only a small angle between upper arm and forearm. Terry does this also, his arm is almost straight ehen it comes out of the water, Shinji pulls his elbow out and the forarm is more loose hanging. Is that all on purpose or for demonstration only?


For my (limited) experience both of these characteristics cannot be maintained at high stroke rates, like < 1.0 or < 0.9. When I watch the underwater footage of Phelps et al you can see clearly that they pause in the rotation only for a tiny moment then immediately rotate back. Also they exit the water earlier, actually when the hand is at waist level.
Since you said that you don't get much faster when swimming with a higher stroke rate, the reason might be that - if you don't adapt your stroke - it might not be suitable for fast rates, no matter how beautiful it looks at lower speeds.

Another small thing: while your left hand is flat when entering the water your right hand has a tendency to rotate internally, so the palm is facing out, sometimes more, sometimes less. Normally one would say this is dangerous to the shoulder, but since Doc Sue says you have good shoulder flexibility you probably get away with it.

BTW I met a 'colleague' of yours some time ago, another coaching Swedish breaststroker: Glen Christiansen. He was accidentally in the lane next to me in one of the pools in my hometown. He was privately coaching someone (who was better off with sticking to Golf, I thought). I don't know if he lives in Germany, his German was very good though. I met him again in the changing room and he commented on my recovery which he found very relaxed. Which of course is nice to hear, particularly as a TI swimmer who spent some time on that recovery business. Also I can only very rarely see my own stroke, so this was nice.

Anyway - hang on in there...
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 04-29-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
Coach
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,453
CoachSuzanne
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wie View Post
30 strokes per 50 m?
In another thread you told me that 40-44 is good.
I'm confused.
It is depending on your height and skill level. Anna's skill is exceptional (She is an Olympian, remember? ) She can swim 25yd breaststroke in 3-5 strokes. Incredible.

Learning from the form of someone like Anna is great because she is able to adapt her swimming to the stroke she wished to teach to her athletes. But trying to emulate her SPL and pace at certain tempos is mostly an exercise in frustration...she's put in more hours in swimming than most of us can ever hope to do.

I love watching her swim and use her videos often to demonstrate aspects of swimmign to my athletes
__________________
Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.