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  #11  
Old 04-09-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
Take all the revenge you like AFTER you post your video. :)
fair enough :)
I just saw the full clip and to my donkey opinion, the right arm cross over and left hip sink are results of bad habits which happened because she breathes on one side only. 3 strokes breathing would have fixed that and would have really saved her energy (of course).
This is the "long term" solution :)
I doubt if she can really fix what you told her to fix during a race. She will go back to the bad habits under the race pressure.
3 strokes is the real surgery that is needed here but it can also kill the patient :)
Its hard to fix the "automated pilot".
If I was her coach I would have tried delicately to change to 3 strokes without changing her formal swim yet. Just as extra work, and then see what happens and if its going somewhere. If she feels good with 3 strokes then I would "push on the matter" and make it permanent. Just my donkey opinion
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Last edited by swimust : 04-09-2013 at 07:59 AM.
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  #12  
Old 04-09-2013
CoachToby CoachToby is offline
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Thanks for posting that set idea Suzanne!

Any thoughts about Endless Pool swimming?
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  #13  
Old 04-09-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimust View Post
fair enough :)
I just saw the full clip and to my donkey opinion, the right arm cross over and left hip sink are results of bad habits which happened because she breathes on one side only. 3 strokes breathing would have fixed that and would have really saved her energy (of course).
This is the "long term" solution :)
I doubt if she can really fix what you told her to fix during a race. She will go back to the bad habits under the race pressure.
3 strokes is the real surgery that is needed here but it can also kill the patient :)
Its hard to fix the "automated pilot".
If I was her coach I would have tried delicately to change to 3 strokes without changing her formal swim yet. Just as extra work, and then see what happens and if its going somewhere. If she feels good with 3 strokes then I would "push on the matter" and make it permanent. Just my donkey opinion
or her right side pull would become as bad as her left side pull and her left side entry would cross over like her right side entry

your observations of the crossover are good, but deliberate practices is needed to correct them, and the flaws must be corrected on the breathing side as well as the non breathing side.

Changing to 3 strokes would be interesting and im not sure she can tolerate slowing down that much.
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Suzanne Atkinson, MD
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USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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  #14  
Old 04-09-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachToby View Post
Thanks for posting that set idea Suzanne!

Any thoughts about Endless Pool swimming?
I don't have a lot of experience, but I do notice my own breathing is worse in an endless pool as I tend to lift my head a bit more. I just bought a pool but it is not het installed
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Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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  #15  
Old 04-09-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry View Post
Charles
How did you estimate 1:07 for 100m as needed to go 59+ for 3.8k?

In 2007 I swam 46:20 for 3.2k in 8x400m laps on the LP IM cable.
No wetsuit and 180-degree reversal of direction every 400m.
At the time, out of curiosity at what sort of IM swim I might be capable of, I calculated that pace projected to 3.8k in 55 min.

That year - age 56 - I'd have been fortunate to swim 100m in, say, 1:12.
Hi Terry

Hmm, this is very very consistent :)

http://www.arhy.org/swim-predict

Use first calculation method. Input 1:12 for 100m, and 46:20 for 3200m, SDI is calculated as 1.05 which is 1 point better than a good SDI for distance swimmer (awesome SDI in other words).

Based on that, you're getting your prediction over a few distances, including the 3.8k. And yes the system preditcs 55.some for 3.8

Note that the right hand side which displays what numbers could be given a good endurance swimming program are irrelevant in this case, since you've exceeded this level.

This dusty calculator will soon be replaced by something much cooler, which will finally take more than 2 inputs for tighter fit.
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  #16  
Old 04-09-2013
Scotty Scotty is offline
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Default Incredibly valuable video

Coach Suzanne:

I learned so much listening to your commentary, particularly the cause and effect of stroke flaws. Please consider posting a video with you providing commentary at least once a month. I'm sure your some of your students would welcome the notoriety of being shown on the TI website.

Your analysis was spot on. Like your sister-in-law I also have a strong recovery on one side and a flat hand-led recovery on the other. I did not appreciate the implications until viewing your tape.

Thanks so much for airing this video and contributing to our stroke improvement.

Scott
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  #17  
Old 04-11-2013
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesCouturier View Post
Hi Sue, first of all, you did an excellent analysis of her stroke. I pretty much agree with everything you mention.

I'll mostly comment on one little thing. If I estimate her SDI out of her best 100m (1:17) and best 3.8k (1h09), I come up with 1.095, which is a fair SDI (not great, but fair).

Based on this SDI, she would need 1:07 worth of speed over 100m if she hopes to book the 3.8 in 59min59sec. If she reaches 1.07 (which is much better SDI), then it becomes 1:14. Still, I already see quite a gap between her current pure speed and the actual requirement to reach her dream goal over 3.8.
Did you take her 100yd pb time and 3,800m Charles. If you put in the original times Suzanne gave for 100yds and 1000yds then you get an SDI of 1.07 and the tool is spot on with her current 3.8K time. So she needs a 1:13 100yards speed before she might go under the hour for Ironman?

SDI results attached.
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  #18  
Old 04-11-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
Did you take her 100yd pb time and 3,800m Charles. If you put in the original times Suzanne gave for 100yds and 1000yds then you get an SDI of 1.07 and the tool is spot on with her current 3.8K time. So she needs a 1:13 100yards speed before she might go under the hour for Ironman?

SDI results attached.
Yes I think her true SDI is slower than what Charles calculated, and I think she can find that 1:13 by optimizing some of the things I pointed out. each one of those little changes will get another few cm out of each stroke at any rate. If she can experiment with tempo/SPL combinations and see that slowing her rate my get her more speed then I think she can do it easily as far as her fitness is concerned.
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Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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  #19  
Old 04-11-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
Did you take her 100yd pb time and 3,800m Charles. If you put in the original times Suzanne gave for 100yds and 1000yds then you get an SDI of 1.07 and the tool is spot on with her current 3.8K time. So she needs a 1:13 100yards speed before she might go under the hour for Ironman?

SDI results attached.
Yep. I had made this assessment too (actual 1.07 out of two inputs).
But no, she'd actually need 1:13 for 100m to expect 59.59 over 3.8m in a pool (or sometimes pool times are matched in ow+wet+drafting).

Depending on where we are in the season, in fact yes I may as well develop an endurance athlete (ie one that has natural talent for longer efforts anyway) as an all rounder with good sprinting abilities to get down to the 100m requirement of achieving this coming summer's goal.

That's basically why this web page was created. What's your dream this summer? Don't loose sight of pure speed requirement.

In this particular application, pure speed isn't really a measure of one's anaerobic potential, but rather of one's ability to swim efficiently enough. To display enough quality in the stroke to reach this particular speed at the far end of a spectrum, the other far end being your goal over whatever long distance you may want to tackle. So strangely, though being a event typical of anaerobic capacity, it's used here as an assessment of one's economy.

Now the important thing is that it probably works the other way around. It's reasonable to believe that you can work solely on lower level work, increase economy up to a certain point that way, in which case your perfs over 100m could benefit from that lower level work. In other words, it makes sense that this works the other way around.

Tackling on smaller distances off season then becomes a choice, not an obligation. I'm more comfortable working this way as a coach as progress over shorter distance is easier to track, it's motivating to see your 100/200/400 improve. Then once in a whilst you retest the longer efforts and wow, PB here PB there. For those who are after big fishes, I think it gets you to save lot of time. Want to hold 1:20 over 1500, quickly take your 100m in 1:10-1:05 (ie, learn how to swim), then 20min for 1500 becomes a realistic target. I shouldn't be writing this here on TI. My point is that it's the way I coach, that's my beliefs, a choice.

Last edited by CharlesCouturier : 04-11-2013 at 08:12 AM.
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