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  #11  
Old 04-18-2014
jafaremraf jafaremraf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
I don't think it's so much a debate as playing with different timings at different tempos & paces to see what it feels like to you. My kick timing changes with my overall speed...earlier kick helps intiiate a faster roll. Perhaps this has to do with overcoming and "getting ahead" of my resonant roll frequency.

https://totalimmersion.wistia.com/medias/pgln8ayuml

Starting at about 1:10 into this video you can see me swimming at a very slow tempo, with lots of streamlining yet still some nice forward movement. My kick is very "late" here i that my hips have already started rolling and I am spearing. The kick "accentuates" the end of the spear.

But at faster tempos my kick timing is different. It has to be...if I initiate kick earlier in this particular clip, it would increase my rate. But I am focusing on something very deliberate here I believe with the width of my hands and any faster rate would distract from my ability to hold focus on my thought at the time.

SO agility is important...the ability to change and vary the relative timing of different parts of the stroke with one another to suit the situation.
It may have been a little naive of me, but I always believed that the stroke that becomes 'your own stroke' and the best you can be, is then either speeded up or slowed down accordingly. To change the timing of the kick within the stroke was something I'd never considered...... And it helps my understanding a lot - thanks!
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  #12  
Old 04-19-2014
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jafaremraf View Post
It may have been a little naive of me, but I always believed that the stroke that becomes 'your own stroke' and the best you can be, is then either speeded up or slowed down accordingly. To change the timing of the kick within the stroke was something I'd never considered...... And it helps my understanding a lot - thanks!
The timing of the arm synchronization changes as well depending on the rate. Play with it
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  #13  
Old 04-19-2014
dprevish dprevish is offline
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Coach Suzanne,
This adjusting of the kick seems to make sense, thanks for illuminating. The late kick also seems more akin to the clips of swimmers that are cruising at slower tempos I've noticed.

Talvi, I was thinking that it would be helpful to have someone video you to see why your foot is hitting that lane divider. It may shed some light to help.
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  #14  
Old 04-19-2014
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Originally Posted by dprevish View Post
Talvi, I was thinking that it would be helpful to have someone video you to see why your foot is hitting that lane divider. It may shed some light to help.
Oh, it would indeed, and if I could I would :) I got someone to video me once, but then I couldn't get them to send me the video so that was that. Hey, it's cold here up north! :D So, videoing in the pools is not allowed, but I'm working on the idea of crashing a club session to see if I might video myself there. It's all a lot easier said than done sadly.
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  #15  
Old 04-19-2014
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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Gee, Talvi stop overthinking all those minor details and go back to the basics.
It sounds like you are studing a piano play but refuse to slowly ingrain the notes until they come without thought and stumble everytime over them when performing the play.
Is there any footage to see what is going on in your stroke?
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  #16  
Old 04-19-2014
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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Sorry. Ok no video.
Can you float in superman, if not how much kick you need?
Can you breathe by only rolling head and body movements?
Can someone watch and give feedback? No coach available?
You dont seem to lack motivation.;-)
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  #17  
Old 04-19-2014
jafaremraf jafaremraf is offline
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Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post
Gee, Talvi stop overthinking all those minor details and go back to the basics.
It sounds like you are studing a piano play but refuse to slowly ingrain the notes until they come without thought and stumble everytime over them when performing the play.
Is there any footage to see what is going on in your stroke?
Go easy on Talvi, Zenturtle....... It sounds like he/she (sorry Talvi not sure which one you are!) is at that place where perhaps we all go from time to time (I know I do!). Swimming is one of those surprising activities where, if you are a beginner, you think you just lie in the water and with a bit of practice off you, only to find it's actually an incredibly technical sport. When the rate at which you improve slows down you begin to start looking at the minute details to see what's missing from your stroke. Doesn't Terry always say that the aim (including his own) is to finish each practice session better than when you enter the pool.

Video would be great, especially if done periodically, not only to see what's going on, but also to see if there is progress - there more than likely is, but we are continually setting new goals to get better and better and sometimes it only feels like we're stuck. But I too struggle to get video. My wish list is to get some lessons from a local TI man, but I need to save a bit first! What about you Talvi, can you get to a workshop?
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  #18  
Old 04-19-2014
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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Yeah I know. Its taking me already 5 times longer than anticipated and still the puzzle isnt solved. Maybe better this way, otherwise its less interesting.
Girls like to discuss problems, guys like to solve problems. I am even worse , too blunt and love to solve problems.
Nothing personal, just like to get a fellow swimmer on the right track with the least amount of mumbo jumbo.
Since we are in the dark, to get a reasonable picture its nice to know the following:
- basic static balance. Is there support needed to keep the legs at the surface and how much.
- basic buoyancy. Will he have a hard time breathing with a relative low head?
- Pace with/ without pull buoy. Is he much slower without a pull: sinking legs
- Pace with /without snorkel. Breathing mechanics ok?
- Stroke count. pace. To get an idea of his stroke style.
- Height . armspan. Same as above.
- basic fittness level.

I got the impression he is trying too many things at the same time without a (hopefully) cunning plan.

Last edited by Zenturtle : 04-19-2014 at 09:29 PM.
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  #19  
Old 04-20-2014
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jafaremraf View Post
.. we are continually setting new goals to get better and better and sometimes it only feels like we're stuck ...
So true! And I'm now having doubts about my plateau. Zenturtle may be a signpost to something.

Probably because I bought a watch I've been focusing on pace, but as my DPS is in the zone, and reasonably constant, the only variable for pace is stroke rate. D'oh! Still, since late November my pace has maybe increased by between 9%-12%.

This thought is leading me to think my prime focus should be on the timing and ease of my breathing now. Those sessions that has been the focus in have been good ones too!

Other technical matters that support better breathing (such as the bob, and, bizarrely, maybe my new TT) should come next, and the fine tuning of propulsive power last, as this probably not actually as relevant as I had been imagining. I think distance would be a better teacher than pace now.

It seems most likely that I am now being held back by the limits of my cardiovasular fitness rather than by my technique. In other words, that fact that my power-train technique is far from perfect may well not be the weakest link.

Looking forward to getting back in the lake :)
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A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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