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  #1  
Old 12-08-2011
isaac.ohel isaac.ohel is offline
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isaac.ohel
Default Beginner's sets

Terry was right. Once I reached my 1000m goal, I am looking for quantitative improvements.

Background:
I am 67 (5'7") and started TI (and freestyle swimming) about two years ago. I love it.
For 25 m, my SPL is 19 at TT 1.5 sec (From 24 at 1.8), and will get better.
1000 m at 33 minutes.

Question:
My 25 m pace is way too fast for 1000m. Should I keep working in shorter sets, hoping for stamina to catch up, or can I do 1000 m swims even though the SPL will have to be terrible (27 at 1.5 sec), and hope for gradual improvement in SPL?

Last edited by isaac.ohel : 12-14-2011 at 07:59 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-14-2011
isaac.ohel isaac.ohel is offline
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isaac.ohel
Default Some math

No response to my question. I'll try to ask it differently

I spend an hour in the pool each day.
I plan to spend the first (easy) 30 minutes going over TI drills.
For the next 30 minutes I want to do whole stroke swimming to improve both my endurance and my TI technique.

At my swimming level and conditioning, I can swim 1km in 30 minutes.
Using simple math, I formulated three options that require equal energy expenditure.

1. Swim 23X25m repeats at TT of 1.50 and SPL of 20 (or lower). Swim 35 seconds and rest 42 seconds for each repeat. (Total time=30 minutes)
2. Swim 1km at TT of 1.50 and SPL of 27 (Time=30 minutes)
3. Swim 1km at TT of 1.95 and SPL of 20 (Time=30 minutes)

Which of these options is better for achieving my dual purpose?
IF "None of the above", than what?
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  #3  
Old 12-15-2011
westyswoods westyswoods is offline
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westyswoods
Default Beginners Set

I would suggest you attempt to decrease or maintain your SPL's while increasing your tempo from 1.5. Do your 25m sets with the intent of gaining a feeling of ease. Don't put a set time on your rest, start the next when you feel set.

Start building the distance while maintaining your metrics. Example every fouth set do a 50 and see what the difference is. Build incrementally on all fronts.

I started with 25m sets and now am at 75's. It goes 2-25's @ 1.3, 1-50 @ 1.3, 1-25 @ 1.3 then 1-75 @ 1.3. The last 75 is a struggle to keep focus and my SPL's below 20. Some days I know it is not going to happen and move down the ladder in tempo to 1.28 starting over with 2-25's.

Another practice is four 25's then three 50's starting at a tempo of 1.3 working down to 1.2 in increments of .02.

The above is where I am at in trying to build stamina while maintaining technique. I doubt I will be doing sets in a pool greater than 200's.

IMHO doing 23 sets of 25 and or 1000m at a set tempo will not get you where you want to go.


Swim Silent and Be Well
Westy
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  #4  
Old 12-15-2011
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Default

I agree with Westy, try to reduce your spl over short relaxed distances (initially 25).

the important thing is to have something to try each lap that could make a difference.

Can you reach further forward,

Is your body snaking through the water or are you holding a straight course

have you experimented with different x-y positions in your spearing arm

does your head come up when you breathe, what happens if you leave it down a little longer before turning

try to gauge the distance you are covering each stroke, you could also try push off, 3 strokes and glide and see if you can get further and further down the pool each time.

If it were me, I would combine this with my drills to make better use of my 60 minutes. e.g. push off and 3-5 full strokes, see where you are, turn around and drill back to the wall. repeat and make conscious changes.

Also don't discard earlier thoughts. My technique refinement goes in circles of ideas.
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  #5  
Old 12-15-2011
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by isaac.ohel View Post
... Should I keep working in shorter sets, hoping for stamina to catch up, or can I do 1000 m swims even though the SPL will have to be terrible (27 at 1.5 sec), and hope for gradual improvement in SPL?
I would not repeat 1000 m swims. You will practice a bad and inefficient stroke. With every stroke you do it will get ingrained more and more in your muscle memory and neuronal system and it will get more and more difficult to change it. Since you do it for the fitness level only you can find something else to strengthen your stamina, like biking, swimming breaststroke etc. The only thing I would not do is swimming a long distance. At least not regularly. Doing it once in a while for fun will not hurt.
I would go for some sets with short distances and lots of repetition of a good and efficient stroke. And play around with the TT and start to ingrain a long and efficient stroke that can hold in long repeats and long distances.
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  #6  
Old 12-15-2011
isaac.ohel isaac.ohel is offline
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isaac.ohel
Default Thanks

Thank you Westy, Andy, and Haschu for your thoughtful replies.

It is unanimous: No "bad" 1000 meters. (Except when I go to the beach)
I understand, and agree with the methodology. I will keep working on increasing tempo and stroke length in short sets.

It is frustrating because I picked up swimming trying to conserve my knees. I enjoy the TI challenge, but I miss the long runs. Breaststroke? Why didn't I think of that? Except that I learned this style fifty years ago and it probably has more problems then my freestyle.
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  #7  
Old 12-15-2011
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by isaac.ohel View Post
... Breaststroke? Why didn't I think of that? Except that I learned this style fifty years ago and it probably has more problems then my freestyle.
It is just an option if you want to do something in the water that doesn't spoil your freestyle stroke. Might get difficult though if you have problems with your knees. Swimming a really bad breaststroke is completely accepted so you can do whatever you want there ;-)

Also you could mix breaststroke and freestyle, like mixing a few freestyle laps in a longer swim and swim the freestyle laps with a strong focus. Got to be inventive. I think the main think is to make sure that you imprint good strokes only for the freestyle. It takes patience, but it is worth it in the long run.


Hang on in there...
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  #8  
Old 12-20-2011
yearn2swim yearn2swim is offline
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yearn2swim
Default Backstroke!

Hey, don't forget backstroke. You can practice the same concepts of streamline, balance, incremental SPL improvement, etc. and get a workout but the muscle memory is totally different.

Mike
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