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  #31  
Old 08-08-2013
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Hi Janos

In my opinion this story about the Ponds Forge pool being too fast and better than the sort of pool in which ordinary swimmers from the USA, China, Lithuania, and New Zealand and Russia can set World, European, American and Oceanic records is a load of nonsense.

I have never swum at Ponds Forge but I hear it is a great facility and one of the so-called fast pools. I think the pool at Barcelona must be pretty fast too, to judge from the results. Strangely, it seems to be faster for the fast swimmers than for the not so fast swimmers.

If I ever get the chance to swim in either Ponds Forge or the Palau Sant Jordi I'll see if any of the magic rubs off on me. ;-)
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  #32  
Old 08-08-2013
terry terry is offline
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Default No such thing as a 'too fast' pool

I've swum in a fair few of the pools considered state of the art, and must say in every instance it's been an uplifting experience. While I can consistently experience states of something close to ecstasy in a fairly ordinary pool--so long as it's outdoors and 50m--there's no question that swimming in a pool designed to produce records is an enhanced experience.

Not only have I noticed that the water feels like quicksilver, but the filtration and ventilation systems are top shelf, the water temp is ideal for performance--and thus training. And the overall environment--both architectural and amenities--is designed for maximum appeal and comfort.

Given the choice to practice occasionally in such a place, I eagerly seek it. (I'll visit Barca in mid-Oct and will definitely look for an opportunity to swim at Palau Sant Jordi.) But most such pools are indoors and my greater preference is to swim outdoors.

Having said that, the majority of my competitive coaching (the exception being several years at the US Military Academy) was spent in relatively inferior, overcrowded, too-shallow, and . . . well, slow . . . pools.

I unequivocally considered that an advantage. When we produced very fast times in practice--which my swimmers regularly did because I orchestrated practice and set design to produce that outcome--I and they knew it was real. And when we walked on deck, or swim in warmup, at one of the top shelf pools at a regional or national championship, they got enormously excited.
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Last edited by terry : 08-08-2013 at 11:19 AM.
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  #33  
Old 08-08-2013
terry terry is offline
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Default I would love to see Katie Ledecky (and Sun Yang) in open water

Not only because she's the fastest woman in the world in 400/800/1500 but because her longer, controlled-tempo stroke (I read a lengthy article on her training by Yuri Sugiyama her coach and he emphasized tempo training quite a bit) seems ideally adapted to taking 5000 to 10000 or more uninterrupted strokes.

Ditto Sun Yang of course.

Does anyone else share this feeling?

2016???
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  #34  
Old 08-08-2013
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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I suppose the fastest pool I have swum in is the 50m pool in Manchester, where the British Masters Championships were held in 2008. I believe Grant Hackett set one of his world records there at a Commonwealth Games.

That meet was remarkable for me in that almost all my swims were personal bests and some of them still are, for example the 400m, 800m and 1500m Free, which I will probably never improve on, although I am aiming to do so if at all possible. I don't know how much was due to the pool and how much was due to other factors. The other 50m pools I have swum in, Crawley, Swansea, Cardiff and Aldershot have also produced some best times. In any case I greatly enjoyed swimming in all of them.

As for seeing Katie Ledecky and Sun Yang swimming in open water, that would indeed be interesting, but probably not very likely, although Sun might well take a fancy to doing a 5k or 10k. I wouldn't like to be the swimmer whose shoulder he was sitting on throughout a 10k if indeed there is anyone in the world who could stay with him that long never mind ahead of him.

Chloe Sutton of course converted to pool swimming from open water and no doubt could convert back again.
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  #35  
Old 08-09-2013
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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I think Sun is unlikely to compete out of the pool as I think he is personally interested in being a blue riband swimmer, and is more likely to try to attempt break the 100m world record than attempt to win at 10K, perhaps?

I lived in Sheffield from 1992-1997 and used to swim in pond's forge quite often but at the time wouldn't have been aware of it's speed as I was a leisure breast stroker.

I do remember preferring to pay to go there than to swim for free in the university pool, so there may have been something.

the pool at Hillingdon sports and leisure complex is of a similar standard I think and most of my pb's in the last two year's have been made there on random visits to the UK, I thought it was the change of water from Norway but maybe it's the different pool.

UK swimming needs better technique training at local club level. I've watched club sessions over the last 20 years and never see any technical discussion or coaching, just metre based sessions and drills. Balance, Streamline and technique for many aren't discussed until they reach national level? I'd love to know the performance times of the 100th best uk freestyler compared to US, Australia or China (or Brazil).
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  #36  
Old 08-09-2013
craig.arnold@gmail.com craig.arnold@gmail.com is offline
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I'm sure Australia has more 50m pools in their high schools than we do in our whole country.

The USA probably has more 50m pools per state in their high schools than we do in the UK.

Does anyone know how many 50m pools there are in the UK? It's probably about 20. And combine that with the fact that almost all of 50m pools are divided into 2x25m for 90% of the time. Bah. Enough to make the blood boil.

Actually I think we do exceptionally well considering the facilities we have - in all sports. Things have improved since the lottery funding came along, but we are still so far behind it's ridiculous.
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  #37  
Old 08-09-2013
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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I suppose since Sun is certainly capable of breaking world records in all freestyle events down to 200m he might also be capable of breaking the record for the 100m. That would be a tall order because it was set in the fast suit era and I don't think even Magnussen has been below 47 since the suits were banned. The fact that Sun can turn on the kind of sprint he can tack on to the end of a 1500 makes one wonder what he could do if he trained specifically for the 100. Park has swum around 49, I think, and is about six inches shorter than Sun. Sun's split in the 4 x 200 is an indication of what he might be capable of.

SUN 0.26 24.21 50.60 1:17.30 1:43.16 (fastest of race)

compared to

LOCHTE 0.20 23.94 51.34 1:17.89 1:44.98 (fastest of USA)

or
IZOTOV 0.73 24.35 50.81 1:17.87 1:45.14 (fastest of RUS)

or
STRAVIUS 0.28 23.75 50.50 1:18.38 1:45.41 (fastest of FRA)
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  #38  
Old 08-09-2013
terry terry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig.arnold@gmail.com View Post
The USA probably has more 50m pools per state in their high schools than we do in the UK.
There is a small handful of US high schools with 50m pools--nearly all because it was built as the community pool. Most US high schools have no pool. I've never lived in a community where the HS had a pool. The great majority that do, have 25y pools.

A relatively small number of universities have 50m pools--though all of the top 20 NCAA programs do. Some have two.

My impression is that there's a far greater concentration of 50m pools in Europe than in most of the US. The exceptions would be Florida, Arizona and CA.
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  #39  
Old 08-09-2013
terry terry is offline
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I think Sun has a good chance to win Olympic gold in 200m, but I feel as if the rubber-suit WR is out of his reach.
As for 100m international titles, I think that would be a stretch. 10k gold not a stretch at all.

Katie Ledecky also had one of the faster 4x200 splits -- 1:55 something.
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  #40  
Old 08-09-2013
CoachToby CoachToby is offline
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Smile Oxygen

It's probably been noticed before on this forum, but I'll just draw attention to it anyway incase some missed it: Sun regularly takes a double breath before going into the flip turn, and somtimes takes a breath on the first two, or even three, strokes after the turn. I've incorporated this into my own lap swimming with great effect. Amazing how much better it feels when your not starved of oxygen!
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