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  #1  
Old 10-14-2016
s.sciame s.sciame is offline
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s.sciame
Default please comment my stroke

Hi all,

here is a first rough attempt at taking a footage of my stroke. Normally I don't like to spend precious swimming time on videos but, since I'm self coached, I thought I might get some useful feedback out of it. I apologise for the quality of the video (I'll do better the next times), hope it's enough to find some major flaws. Any critique is welcome:

Above water view (at 1500m pace, breathing right on way out and left on way back, alternating 2bk and 6bk):
https://youtu.be/hIwi7gq1kCk

Under water view (at 4k or recovery pace):
https://youtu.be/nU09Z79aSgo

I found that I overrotate when breathing right (my less favourite side) and this causes bad stuff especially when I'm not fresh. Guess this overrotation doesn't happen (or is less visible) when I swim at faster paces.

Some additional info: I swim 3 to 4 times and 12 to 14k per week in a 25m pool. I'd like to take my 1500m pace toward 1:30/100m, currently it's 1:36 but I seem to be stuck on a plateau.

Thanks in advance,
Salvo
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  #2  
Old 10-15-2016
tomoy tomoy is offline
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Salvo - quite nice - moving along pretty quickly. Good tempo to be able to keep up for 1500. Rear end looks decently high. Nice wide recovery and spear. Nice!

First thing I noticed is a little bit of swerving. When looking at the underwater view, it's clear you're tipping your head into your leading shoulder. If you can straighten things out a bit your distance will be shorter between any given two points. It's not a wide swerve. You correct it almost immediately, but it's there.

Next thing I noticed is your kick is pushing air about 1m down into the pool. See if you can streamline that a little better. Quiet that kick down. It's grabbing the surface air, which tells me you're probably bending at the knee a little more than necessary. I can't quite confirm that because I can't see through the bubbles, but I get the feeling it's not as streamlined a kick as it could be. It's possible that this kick is giving you balance. If you make it smaller, tighter, can you find your way back to balance?

Finally, this is subtle and not egregious, but something ZT will probably notice, it seems like your up front timing transition to catch is a little too delayed, so your underwater stroke seems a little rushed. It feels like you're force moment is pretty quick and short. You might find energy savings in getting a smooth catch going a little earlier, and applying gentler pressure through a longer phase underwater. But to do this without changing your timing and balance, you're going to have to get the recovery arm forward faster.

Maybe slow it down a little. Get used finding your fore/aft balance via a more front-quadrant timing (move that recovery faster) instead of the powerful down kick. Once the timing and balance are good again, then ramp back to your normal tempo. I think there's room for energy savings on the kick, and also during your power phase.

Nitpicking though. This is one of the most advanced strokes I've seen here in a long time. Keep up the great work!
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  #3  
Old 10-15-2016
Streak Streak is offline
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You look great Salvo.
Tomoy's keen eye has pointed out a few areas of possible correction.
Nice and smooth and at a very nice pace.

I would love to be able to swim a 1500m at a pace of 1:36 still trying to get lower than 27:45 for the 1500m (1650 yards in my 25 yard pool).
Keep it up.
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  #4  
Old 10-15-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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We do mostly agree here Tomoy .

My earlier comments on the other site

I see a bit of paltrinieri :D
First impression is a very nice stroke with little room for technique improvement. Looks all basically sound and relaxed.
Comparing the general impression with faster swimmer, my gutt feeling is that faster swimmers release more power to the water and look somewhat more precise, tight and powerfull.
First impression: best to start training with Ducky and do a lot of fast 10x 100 or 20 x 50 sort of stuff. Tighten everything up a bit under increased load and get some more pepper, control and precision

Whats left to improve technically
Your kick is heavier than expected.
You are twisting and moving around a bit too much. More straight torpedo is better for streamline and you seem to use more energy as needed make small corrections to get everyting cruising straight forward all the time.
Sometimes you are spinning out of control.
The big kick seems to be a part of it.
Maybe do more no kick swimming and check if you can keep your body straight when doing that.
Your pull goes a bit wide and seems to slip some water at the end. There is some sloppiness there, but the basics are good. Again the slighly too relaxed layer thats laying over the movement.
Maybe focus on keeping the head more stable. Your body is following the head movement.
Its all tiny stuff thats not going to make you much faster if its fixed i guess.A few seconds per 100?
Swimming more and harder will probably give more result. You already reached a good level.
If you dont have an elite engine, getting faster needs a lot of training I guess.
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  #5  
Old 10-15-2016
s.sciame s.sciame is offline
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Very good comments and advices guys, thank you so much! I believe fixing my right overrotation could help me catching earlier and better and getting rid of that powerful downkick. Also have to work on keeping the head still.

ZT, thanks for the Paltrinieri thing, I guess you watched my video in fast forward mode ;)

Salvo
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  #6  
Old 10-15-2016
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Hi Salvo,

Adding to the other comments, you have a similar issue as CC in another thread. You are lifting recovery a bit soon (runner's elbow) causing the shoulder to heave arm forward rather then letting the momentum carry it forward. More prominent on right side recovery triggering over-rotation, and recovery arm collapses flat at entry. See frames at 0:51

Extend forearm to hip, releasing recovery arm and will naturally swing wide - no need to muscle it forward from the shoulder.

Stuart
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  #7  
Old 10-16-2016
daveblt daveblt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
Hi Salvo,

Adding to the other comments, you have a similar issue as CC in another thread. You are lifting recovery a bit soon (runner's elbow) causing the shoulder to heave arm forward rather then letting the momentum carry it forward. More prominent on right side recovery triggering over-rotation, and recovery arm collapses flat at entry. See frames at 0:51

Extend forearm to hip, releasing recovery arm and will naturally swing wide - no need to muscle it forward from the shoulder.

Stuart



I have been doing my recovery for the longest time based on previous comments and advice that you should not pull too far back towards the hip but work on an early release to keep your recovery in the front quadrant because it keeps the weight of your arm forward and resulting in better balance ,but this advice seems to be the opposite ??
Please comment .


Dave

Last edited by daveblt : 10-16-2016 at 04:59 PM.
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  #8  
Old 10-16-2016
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveblt View Post
I have been doing my recovery for the longest time based on previous comments and advice that you should not pull too far back towards the hip but work on an early release to keep your recovery in the front quadrant because it keeps the weight of you arm forward and resulting in better balance ,but this advice seems to be the opposite ??
Please comment .


Dave
Hi Dave,

That is common misunderstanding and confusion. First, there is not a pull through to the hip, that triggers and flick/flip of the recovery hand over hip which causes a hitch or deceleration of recovery arm at the hip. However, you don't want to stunt recovery lifting too early and never extending arm to "release" at hip. Swimmers often attempt to get a high elbow recovery lifting elbow too early when forearm has not fully extended - this stunts recovery and its momentum.

Recovery (arm) really begins at the bellybutton (below surface), at this point it's critical to extend forearm to release hand at the hip as hand exits water. Using the focus "palm up" at the hip will help extend recovery arm/hand to hip and release naturally wide with no deceleration, hitch or hand flip/flick at hip.

Hope that helps clear the confusion.

Stuart
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  #9  
Old 10-16-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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in my view the basic action is very much like a butterfly action with bodyrotation to make the recovery even easier in freestyle.
In butterfly you certainly dont want hesitation at the rear. (so I have been told)
No wide tracks at the rear....from belly bottom back and out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbIPG2RxszA

start at the belly button palms up?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdaP6DdrQIw

Or do I add to the confusion again? ;-)

Last edited by Zenturtle : 10-16-2016 at 06:38 AM.
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  #10  
Old 10-17-2016
s.sciame s.sciame is offline
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s.sciame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
Hi Salvo,

Adding to the other comments, you have a similar issue as CC in another thread. You are lifting recovery a bit soon (runner's elbow) causing the shoulder to heave arm forward rather then letting the momentum carry it forward. More prominent on right side recovery triggering over-rotation, and recovery arm collapses flat at entry. See frames at 0:51

Extend forearm to hip, releasing recovery arm and will naturally swing wide - no need to muscle it forward from the shoulder.

Stuart
Thanks Stuart, that's interesting and maybe I now know something new of my stroke: actually I don't feel like I'm using the shoulder to lift the arm out of the water, my recovery feels pretty relaxed even on long and/or intense swims. But perhaps this is due to the fact that

1) I also rotate a lot (guess the more you rotate the earlier you can exit without hurting your shoulders) and,
2) because I pull wide, when I take my hand out the water, it already is quite far from the body (ie a position which allows to swing wide with little effort from the shoulder)

If that's true, it would also explain why sometimes I feel not comfortable on shoulders when I swim with a front snorkel: since the snorkel inhibits overrotation, in order to exit early I need to use the shoulders.

Anyway, in the last 2 sessions I did a lot of snorkel swimming and I made my thumb brushing over my thigh on EVERY stroke to make sure I don't exit too early. In this way, snorkel swimming actually felt easier on shoulders and DPS improved too. Times and effort are the same, anyway I think I'm on the right path.

Thanks again,
Salvo
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