hunching your shoulders while swimming

[WFEGb]

Hello Danny,

very sorry, argue I'm out now caused by my poor English/American. Seems I misunderstood many of your critical points.

For my lacked understanding our scapulars are two large bones shown by Animation. And there are two planes parallel. First that one parallel to collar bones and spine and second, the scapular plane, parallel to but a little more back with containing both animated red lines. (Mis)Understood your handicap as a third scapular plane even a little more back, parallel to both mentioned before.

Please keep us in line how it goes on.

Best regards,
Werner

PS: If I didn't understand everything wrong, seems you're much nearer by an ideal recovery and stroke than previously thought.

[Danny]

Hi Werner,

I don't think it's your English. I had a lot of trouble understanding what people were talking about when they refer to the scapular plane, as does anyone who hasn't taken a course in human anatomy. So here is a diagram which shows my understanding of what this means
scapular plane.jpg
The diagram is the view looking down at someone's head and shoulders from above. The circle is the head and the horizontal line are the shoulders. The scapular plane is defined by the line at a 45 degree angle and a line perpendicular to the plane of the picture. Your upper arm should move in this plane during a freestyle recovery. In my case, the shoulder locks up if the angle is only 45 degrees, but if I increase the angle to 90 degrees then I can lift my arm above my head.

Please let me know if this makes sense. If not I can try another picture.

[WFEGb]

Hello Danny,

thanks! Think I do now understand what you mean. But now Stuart has to jump in again.

I don't think your issue is as bad as your might feel it. Remember when I had to resolve my "breathing-thing" I focused to reach an angle (yours) around 0° to get more of the bellows effect to breathing. (Andy's picture.) It did help to my first continous 1000m - strangely. This turned out as mistake later on, because it promotes unwanted "chicken wings". So how about a thought: This will never be a problem for me on right side...

Did you play a little with sliding hand/fingertips in water up to mailslot? Terry told, his fingertips often draw line at surfyce even in normal swimming. (Well Terry's swimming will ever be extraordinary...)

Did you test with different rotation angles? As I understand, it's necessary to experiment a little with more rotation. (Misunderstood(?) your intention as rotating less for better "hunching"...)

Seems there are more degrees of freedom for your poolwork than we realized before this thread.

Wish you satisfying success very fast!

Best regards,
Werner

[Danny]

Originally Posted by WFEGb

Hello Danny,

thanks! Think I do now understand what you mean.

Good!

Originally Posted by WFEGb

But now Stuart has to jump in again.

I don't think your issue is as bad as your might feel it. Remember when I had to resolve my "breathing-thing" I focused to reach an angle (yours) around 0° to get more of the bellows effect to breathing. (Andy's picture.) It did help to my first continous 1000m - strangely. This turned out as mistake later on, because it promotes unwanted "chicken wings". So how about a thought: This will never be a problem for me on right side...

Now I'm a little confused. Not sure what you're talking about here...

Originally Posted by WFEGb

Did you play a little with sliding hand/fingertips in water up to mailslot? Terry told, his fingertips often draw line at surfyce even in normal swimming. (Well Terry's swimming will ever be extraordinary...)

Yes, I try to do this while swimming normally. This is how I judge if I am doing a good elbow up recovery.

Originally Posted by WFEGb

Did you test with different rotation angles? As I understand, it's necessary to experiment a little with more rotation. (Misunderstood(?) your intention as rotating less for better "hunching"...)

Ah yes, the body rotation is the part I haven't yet discussed but that is definitely playing a role in this. Because I am increasing the angle of my recovery to 90 degrees in the picture I posted, it seems that I must rotate more to keep my recovering hand out of the water. For reasons I don't yet understand, I haven't been feeling this when swimming. As I mentioned, it is easier for me to increase my stroke rate, even though more body rotation should slow down the stroke rate. So I am still a little puzzled about this.

A few more hours in the swimming pool all by myself, while the girls team does dry-land exercises, will hopefully help me to sort all of this out!

[WFEGb]

Hello Danny,

Now I'm a little confused. Not sure what you're talking about here...

This doesn't matter :-) My mistake you can't fall into... When working on breathing then, I tried to open my breast as wide as possible with upper arms as much back as possible (0° or even negative ones) to get in as much air as possible. This led to unwished chicken wings...

Soon success and savor your empty pool!

Best regards,
Werner

[Danny]

Thanks, Werner. Having a pool all to yourself happens by accident every now and then, but it is too good to last for long. Each day is a gift, including the swimming pool!