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  #11  
Old 06-29-2015
Ron Bear Ron Bear is offline
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Longer distances?
Right now that is a no go for this newly acquired skill. This morning I tried to stretch it out to 100, but I'd say that I got it right on fewer than half the strokes. Then I took it back to 50 at 1.3 and it was still bad. After a few 50s at 1.4, I got it right and then I was able to get it right at 1.3 as well. Right now I still have a pretty tenuous grasp on the skill. I need to firm up my feel for it before I try to bring it to longer distances. The thing is that when I do it correctly it is really easy. So I think it will work great at longer distances as soon as it is not a fleeting skill for me.

Ron
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  #12  
Old 06-29-2015
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Sounds like you've got it nailed! :) If I actually ever get it right then I feel it's maybe one stroke in twenty :D FWIW to me a 1:32/100 pace is impressive, especially at that dps and even more as you've only just started! Way to go. My best is about 1:45 over the same distance and although I swim longer distances, I'm (still) a way above 2:00/100 for those. Are you self taught?
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A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
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~ Aleksandr Popov
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  #13  
Old 06-30-2015
Ron Bear Ron Bear is offline
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I am self taught in that I have not had a coach. On the other hand I started my swimming adventure by buying a TI book and video, so I definitely had guidance on how to do it the right way. Based on your response, I think I somehow implied I had just started swimming with TI. I have been at it for years. The new thing for me is this idea of falling forward / shifting your weight forward which I have been reading about for years but which I think I finally get. I have probably read about it from a dozen different coaches and posters on this forum, but something finally clicked and now I think I really get it.

Ron
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  #14  
Old 07-01-2015
Talvi Talvi is offline
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I've been at it for years too Ron (started in 2012, could only manage 50m in a 25m pool, did my first mile a year later but have been making only slow progress since).

You're swimming in a 50m pool right?
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A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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  #15  
Old 07-03-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Bear View Post
I took these thoughts with me to the pool last night and had a personal record of sorts.

I had a single goal the whole practice of "fall forward perfectly". To achieve that I alternated two focal points: 1) relax forward (as we were discussing) 2) perfect catch/ EVF.

I have only recently learned how to do this and only at a tempo trainer pace of 1.4 so 1.4 is where I started. It took me 4x 50m at 1.4 to dial it in and then I moved to 1.3. The best 50 meter 1.3 of the evening took 32 strokes and 46 seconds. That is the PR of sorts; not my fastest, but my fastest at 1.3.

The really cool thing for me is that this is out of my green zone in the good direction. My green zone is 35 to 46 strokes. So the 32 strokes at 1.3 indicates that I should be able to swim maximally efficiently at a faster tt pace. I can't actually do that yet (1.2 is coming, but not there yet), but it seems I have unlocked the potential at least.
I find this very inspirational -- that someone can take a concept that initially he finds very mysterious and nebulous, then formulate it clearly so that he can actually put it into practice, and then move to attempting to practice it consistently, and then do the same thing simultaneously with another equally nebulous concept. Not only that, but these concepts are actually associated with more efficient swimming, which is then actually achieved.

I started open water practice this evening, and, despite coping with the novelty and unfamiliarity of this new medium, was able to put a healthy start into thinking "relax" as I extended the lead hand while I stroked with the other hand. It was satisfyingly difficult, but I was successful at a high enough percentage to be very encouraged at this early stage of the game.

Now to finesse this early success into "fall forward perfectly"!

Last edited by sclim : 07-03-2015 at 02:01 PM.
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  #16  
Old 07-03-2015
Danny Danny is offline
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Lately I've been focussing on swimming distance and also becoming aware of a noticeable loss of coordination between spearing and body rotation as I tire. Today I did a 900m set followed by a 600m followed by a 500 m. In the beginning, I felt like my body rotation and timing was working well. For me, this seemed to mean spearing with my shoulder instead of my elbow. I think what this means is that spearing with my shoulders is an indication that the action is initiated with the entire body instead of just the arms. As I tire, I start to note that I am spearing more by simply straightening my arm at the elbow instead of driving it from the shoulder, so I try to concentrate on slowing it down and doing it again with the shoulder.

The idea of releasing your arm sounds counter-intuitive to me, but I will try it.
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  #17  
Old 07-04-2015
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny View Post
.. The idea of releasing your arm sounds counter-intuitive to me, but I will try it.
Hiya Danny

The complete phrase is "release your arm forward", so there is still intention and form in it but not tension. I've been feeling Coach Suzanne's advice on opening the armpit coming when I get things better.

FWIW
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A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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  #18  
Old 07-04-2015
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello Talvi,

Quote:
...I've been feeling Coach Suzanne's advice on opening the armpit coming when I get things better.
When focusing on opening the armpit my stroke tends to rotate a litlle more. Do you know this effect? What are you doing about it?

Best regards,
Werner
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  #19  
Old 07-05-2015
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
Hello Talvi,

When focusing on opening the armpit my stroke tends to rotate a litlle more. Do you know this effect? What are you doing about it?

Best regards,
Werner
That was happening with me too Werner.

I've come back to the open-armpit focus by way of my working to extend my spear arm straight, immediately after hand entry and with no bent elbow, in a relaxed but intentional manner. I noticed I got that open-armpit feeling when I got extension plus relaxation, and maybe also the extension from the back rather than lifting the shoulder.

I've had the over-rotation problem as a key focus recently and find it stops when I get the track width right, not too narrow not too wide. That's my understanding of balance at the moment - the pendulum feeling. I'm focusing on line and length, and feeling this line to include my spearing arm rather than feeling my arm as detached from my bodyline.

Part of my being able to work on these things better has come from being less disciplined about my head position. I frequently over-rotate my head now, eyes towards the sky, mouth well clear of the water, as in the TI home page photo, so I can get the feel of my limits, improve my breath timing, and get rid of some more tension in my stroke.

Hope that helps.
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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  #20  
Old 07-05-2015
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello Talvi,

Quote:
... I noticed I got that open-armpit feeling when I got extension plus relaxation, and maybe also the extension from the back rather than lifting the shoulder. ...
Think this will appear if we focus more in spearing with elbow than in spearing with forearm or hand.

Quote:
... I've had the over-rotation problem as a key focus recently and find it stops when I get the track width right, not too narrow not too wide. That's my understanding of balance at the moment - the pendulum feeling. I'm focusing on line and length, and feeling this line to include my spearing arm rather than feeling my arm as detached from my bodyline. ...
Right trackwidth might be the cure. Often in faster strokes (for me below 1.3s) I realize I've to correct it. Sometimes because wobbling forearm sometimes because straightening my spear does need a left-right correction especially the left.

BTW think overrotation as game or for recovery interests is OK and the home page photo gives a dynamic impression clearly. But don't know it it is best for demonstrating part of TI-stroke.

Best regards,
Werner
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