Total Immersion Forums  

Go Back   Total Immersion Forums > Freestyle
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-11-2015
Tello74 Tello74 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 3
Tello74
Default Ultra-efficient freestyle and speed

Hi to all,

I'm from Italy (40 years young ;-) 176cm height) and I'm looking for useful advises to increase my freestyle speed. I'm swimming in a regular way from 10 years and I prefer endurance to racing speed. I'm able to swim 3000m with no rest but I have a very low speed (30s per 25m lap).
Forcing my swim I can do 25s per lap but no more. And in addition I reach the end of the lap very tired and unable to continue with such a rithm.

Searching on Google I found about TI and recently purchased the "Ultra-efficient freestyle DVD-books". It contains very useful lessons and introduced me to the very fascinating world of ultra-efficient swimming.
I'm currently able to swim 25m with 15spl BUT :-( my speed is always 30s per lap.

I suspect to have a bad propulsion with legs or arms. Looking at Shinji Takeuchi videos I see a very good athlete (TI coach) swimming a lap in 15s-20s without rush. I would love to reach a similar result.
He seems to go forward also if he doesn't push hard with 11-12 strokes and 20s per lap. It is amazing for me !!!

Suggestions/exercises to increse my speed (increasing efficience) are accepted.
Feel free to ask your questions about my habits during swimming.

In addition do you plan organizing some lessons in Italy? I find very difficult to learn swimming "online" :-)))

Thank you!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-11-2015
CoachToddE CoachToddE is offline
Coach
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 96
CoachToddE
Default

If you can wait another month help is on the way. My daughter, Kate, who is a certified TI Coach will be relocating to Italy in July 2015 to join her husband (US Air Force) at Aviano Ab for the next couple of years. You can find her email address on the Find A Coach, Texas, or you can email her at kateerickson@att.net.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-11-2015
s.sciame s.sciame is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Rome, Italy
Posts: 479
s.sciame
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tello74 View Post

I find very difficult to learn swimming "online" :-)))
Hi Tello, you're not alone! I'm in Rome and learned swimming online as an adult (currently 37yo, began in 2011). Never joined a master squad, 100% self coached.
Maybe it's more difficult (or takes some more time) to learn this way, but it's also very satisfying for me, it's a continuous research and a wonderful journey. In 4 years I don't remember I ever headed to the pool without knowing what to do or try. And of course I never got bored.
Moreover you can find very passionate swimmers online!

As for your suspect to have a bad propulsion with legs or arms, why do you think that? Chances are that your balance and posture/streamline (ie drag reduction) can be improved (yes, you can hit 15SPL over 25m, but in 30s), before assessing propulsion.
As you may have seen, TI teaches to swim with the body, not with legs and arms. Legs add very little in terms of propulsion, and arms are better used as anchors.

BR,
Salvo
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-12-2015
CoachStuartMcDougal's Avatar
CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
coach
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,353
CoachStuartMcDougal
Default

Hi Tello74,

Heed Salvo's advice on balance, streamline and core stability - that increases speed and minimizes effort.

If you are stroking 15 strokes in 25m in 30 secs, that's roughly 2.0 seconds per stroke or 30 strokes per minute, very slow. I suspect you are hitting this stroke count and rate of turnover not because you have great balance, but rather you are pausing recovery arm/hand at hip (common error).

Get yourself a tempo trainer and start working with tempos between 1.2 secs per stroke and 1.4 secs per stroke, 50 strokes per min and 43 strokes per min respectively. The Ultra-Efficient Freestyle will describe how to use tempo trainer and count strokes. Make sure there is no pause of recovery arm at hip; think continuous motion, no descelleration or acceleration of recovery arm.

Enjoy your journey!

Stuart
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-12-2015
Tello74 Tello74 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 3
Tello74
Default

Hi Salvo and Hi coaches,

could you please articulate more the concept of swimming with the body and not with arms and legs?
It is only matter of streamlining, balance, ecc (body position) or is there also some body movement or body muscle to be used to gain propulsion.

I read on the TI eBook that hand must enter the water then remaining there while the body go forward then exit from the same water slot. But WHO make the body go forward if legs and arms doesn't work to create propulsion?

I feel to have no pauses in my swimming and in addition if I try to decrease stroke time I only obtain a greater number of SPL without decreasing lap time. Very frustrating :)

Thank you in advance!

Last edited by Tello74 : 06-12-2015 at 01:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-12-2015
CoachStuartMcDougal's Avatar
CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
coach
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,353
CoachStuartMcDougal
Default

Hi Tello74,

Read sections on Balance, Streamline, Core Stability, and Propulsion (whole body movement), this is described very well. Your perception will begin to shift from "kicking and pulling" to rhythmic weight shifts and whole body movements for propulsion.

Swimmers rarely are aware they are pausing recovery hand at hip - but I'm fairly sure this is what happening given your description. 15 SPL is too low for you, not sustainable, and I think it's with pausing at hip errors - so it's not an accurate SPL. In Ultimate Freestyle there is a "Green Zone" chart of where your SPL should be given your height and pool length (25y or 25m). Given your height at 176cm, your "Green Zone" SPL in 25m pool should be between 17 - 21, and this is assuming you are pushing off the wall for 5m and stroking for 20m.

Get yourself a tempo trainer and find the tempo that puts you in your "green zone".

Stuart
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-12-2015
Tello74 Tello74 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 3
Tello74
Default

Hi Stuart,

I will try using Tempo Trainer following your advise.
Regarding the SPL look at this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJpFVvho0o4
I think you know about Shinji Takeuchi. He swims 12 SPL in 20s.
How long is this lane? Why he is so under the "green zone"?
Yes, he is a champion but I want to emulate him :-))

Regards,
Donatello
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-12-2015
s.sciame s.sciame is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Rome, Italy
Posts: 479
s.sciame
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tello74 View Post
Hi Salvo and Hi coaches,

could you please articulate more the concept of swimming with the body and not with arms and legs?
It is only matter of streamlining, balance, ecc (body position) or is there also some body movement or body muscle to be used to gain propulsion.

I read on the TI eBook that hand must enter the water then remaining there while the body go forward then exit from the same water slot. But WHO make the body go forward if legs and arms doesn't work to create propulsion?
I like to think of swimming as walking: when you walk, you anchor one foot on the ground and move your body past it, leveraging partly on gravity, partly on inertia, partly on a soft push performed by the planted leg. But you don't really feel you need to push with your leg to move forward (unless you're walking uphill and gravity is against you). Perhaps you feel like gently swinging the other leg forward is enough to keep moving. And to gently swing that leg forward you use your body as a whole and some rhythm, not the leg itself.
Swimming is like this, anchor one arm and gently swing the other one forward using your body and rhythm. It works as long as you're well balanced (Terry used to call this feeling "swimming downhill").

Hope that helps,
Ciao.
Salvo
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-12-2015
CoachToby CoachToby is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 119
CoachToby
Default

Donatello. Stuart's advice is sound and you should definitely try to get comfortable swimming with SPLs in your green zone - the Tempo Trainer will help. (Although very impressive, Shinji's achievements over one length for a video don't reflect how he swims normally and shouldn't be seen as an objective standard to attain). Set a personal base point for yourself and work from that.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-13-2015
fooboo fooboo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 219
fooboo
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
Swimmers rarely are aware they are pausing recovery hand at hip
You are absolutelly correct!
It was so easy to hide behind balance and streamline and almost
forget about propulsion. This morning on the pool I confirmed
what you said. I mostly glide and annoy people having stroke 2-3
times longer than theirs.
Moving that arm forward as soon as it comes back would be what
I should work on next. In my case relax = lazy.
Best regards.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.