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  #21  
Old 03-31-2015
Streak Streak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talvi View Post
Thanks Streak, but slow down the tempo any more and I'll start going backwards! Thanks, it's an interesting idea, and I'll surely think about it next time out My goal is to get to something metronomic and efficient going. I sometimes get a feeling of concrete in the water that I find uncomfortable. ZT made a comment above that made me think it came from extension so it all fits. I've attached a still that seems to show a reasonable stretch but still room for more. At the time of that video I was trying to relax my spearing arm so that it would have no impact on my rotation/breathing and I could focus on rotation alone in getting to air.
Then keep the temp the same but give you arm a chance to stretch out in front of you. The still image you included looks like you are fully stretched but it's taken from the front. I am sure if you look at the side view you will see the elbow bend. Also I find that still can be useful but they are just a moment in time, sometimes a good one and sometimes a bad one! They key is to be able to repeat the good ones.

My visualisation was watching the TI masters swimming and seeing their lead hand outstretched in front of them gliding through the water before starting the catch.

Watching your video again, I also notice a distinct downwards push by your right hand before commencing the actual catch.

Soon it will be my turn to have my swim video taken apart!
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  #22  
Old 03-31-2015
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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Cant wait doing exactly that Streak!
Is extending and holding on to the water long your focus that has helped to get under 30 minutes?
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  #23  
Old 03-31-2015
Streak Streak is offline
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Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post
Cant wait doing exactly that Streak!
Is extending and holding on to the water long your focus that has helped to get under 30 minutes?
I think so. Making sure my fingers are pointed straight ahead at the end of the spear allowing the water to pass over my outstretched hand and only then commencing the catch.
Prior to that I was too focused on recovering over the barrel and my spear continued to have a bit of that shape too with fingers and some forearm pointing down. I could feel the water resistance on the backs of my hand and forearm so tried a curved entry and then a straighter spear to minimse drag.

Well that's my theory anyway. The video could show something totally different!
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  #24  
Old 04-01-2015
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post
Believe I have said it before, but to check if the inconsistency is coming from the kick-balance combo you could try to swim with a pull buoy and see if your stroke count gets more consistent.
Its alsoo a good check to compare stroke count and times with-without a pull buoy.
LoL I was thinking about Streak's Alpha fins soon after I woke this morning!! Sad really :D I thought I'd see what my balance looks like on the hoped for videos I'm soon going to have. But following on after that I thought about Werner's no-kick-one-kick drill set, which I couldn't do because my legs sank and created so much drag, and decided to buy the fins after all in order to practice that.

I did go through a phase of using a pull-buoy (with a snorkle) maybe nearly a year ago. It was fun but I didn't get much out of it, actually nothing. But I was using a snorkle. My idea was to eliminate everything bar the rotation and arms. Using those fins though ... I think that idea of yoirs has potential. Only way is to try right?!

With regard to the drills my experience has been wierd. My SPL sometimes doesn't change by more than one sroke. That irritates me a lot! :D
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A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
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Last edited by Talvi : 04-01-2015 at 05:46 AM.
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  #25  
Old 04-01-2015
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Streak View Post
I... I could feel the water resistance on the backs of my hand and forearm so tried a curved entry and then a straighter spear to minimse drag. ...
Shinji gave me some advice on the video I posted regarding recovery which fits with what you are describing Streak. Terry also popped in to give his analogy of the recovery hand entering like ripe fruit dropping from a tree. See Shinji's post (#2) on this thread: http://totalimmersion.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7604
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A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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  #26  
Old 04-01-2015
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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You certainly have some room for improvement at the front, but we all do.
I find your arm movement better than Streaks comparing the footage, but Streaks basic core stroke is more solid. He has a better foundation and can start playing with stroke details unbothered by a foundation that could fall apart.
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  #27  
Old 04-01-2015
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post
.. basic core stroke ... foundation ...
True! And thanks for looking again ZT.

Could you detail more specifically what you mean here by those terms? That would be very interesting indeed I think.


p.s
Just for the record, I really feel that video of me is misleading. I'm not saying I'm better than it shows just different.

I had no idea when the coach intended to take the video or how. I had imagined an almost empty pool and the loan of their camera. His masters group, of about 12 swimmers in two lanes, listened to instructions and then swam a length, doing a drill or focusing on some point. The pauses between these lengths were maybe three times as long as the total time taken for all six swimmers to swim the length. I had no idea what they were doing as it was all in Finnish, I just sat on the steps, as there wasn't room in the pool, and after the last of them set out I followed, doing my thing as best I could. It felt a bit like being a goldfish in the Colliseum. I got him to lend me the camera, and I tried to place it at the pool bottom half way along and set it going. The individual lengths continued for about three quarters of an hour after which the swimmers were left to do their own thing. It was then that the coach told me how we'd do the filming. There was a young lad, to whom he gave the camera, and he discussed with him what he wanted, in Finnish of course. The coach then asked me to swim four of five strokes out and then back, while the lad, who'd donned fins, swam alongside me under water. I was by now pretty confused and tried to swim close to the lane rope thinking that would be needed for a decent shot. As you can see though the lad dived to the bottom and filmed from there. I didn't notice at the time. I was distracted by trying to avoid hitting the lane dividers. What you see is the edited highlights of his filming. I found that I hadn't pushed the right buttons so the 30mins I shot was blank!

Still it shows clearly how out of kilter I get, and Shinji's input especially continues to be invaluable to me. How he even saw what he did is beyond me.
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A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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  #28  
Old 04-01-2015
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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Well, watched his video again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnWj...ature=youtu.be
and it was a better in my memory now I look at it again.
Looks very much like your stroke basically.
Same kick issue, roughly same arm issue.
He just glides forward so much more relaxed between strokes compared to your forward momentum.
With his glide its easy to get good DPS.
Hops more form on edge to the other while keeping his line.
You come almost to a complete standstill between strokes (look at the tiles in the background)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjeK...ature=youtu.be
Is it his natural balance and buoyancy? Does he keep his bodyline better?Is it the extension difference?Is his body simply more streamlined? There isnt much differnence in balance angle. Talvis hips are near the surface.
I think its a bit of all of the above, but maybe A real coach can chime in.
Getting a bit confused myself now...

He extends his arm more what looks more streamlined, but the trouble with the extension is also visible.
Going from holding extension to catch in a nanosecond is only possible with a collapsed elbow, and when you have lost that high elbow you are done and your stroke is waisted.
You are somewhat in the middle.
No extension, but a slightly better transition to catch.
Ideal is (almost) full extension and reaching over the barrel way upfront to make a long fluid stroke, holding and building pressure all rhrough the stroke while your pointed arrowed body shoots past that anchor.
Cant repeat old cliches often enough :)

Last edited by Zenturtle : 04-01-2015 at 11:12 AM.
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  #29  
Old 04-01-2015
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Thanks ZT!! :) I can see that stop you refer to in my stroke now. And it coicides with that lovely hooking kick of mine. That really was the big shock for me. I'm still not clear what you thought was any good about my catch but, I think I may be able to help improve that front quadrant by extending with my palm facing the bottom of the pool. I always knew I did it but didn't see it as being a problem. I also felt it stopped me pushing down (because it meant I couldn't). Focusing on full extension will feed into that change (hopefully). Yesterday I started trying to change my hand position in spearing but because it "felt odd". I haven't watched that video for weeks, and now realize why! But good medicine nonetheless! I really want to have somethings changed in those two things before there's much point in posting again.
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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  #30  
Old 04-01-2015
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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So, I am going to make myself very unpopulair again.
Talvi ,you hate the SS guys, but honestly, dont you think they have a very very veryvery small point here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPrNv_G-YlQ (2.10min to2.40 min, not the putting on the brakes thing)

Last edited by Zenturtle : 04-01-2015 at 01:07 PM.
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