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  #1  
Old 01-30-2015
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Default Records will tumble?

For the last month or so, I've finally surrendered all watches and tempo trainers and concentrated each session on swimming as well as I can each stroke.

4 weeks later and today I played a game with myself to chase down some triathletes in my lane who like to swim 3.2km three times a week non stop every week, every time the same session.

The guy today is a pretty good swimmer with a mile time of under 26 minutes.

for my first 50 I gave him a 5 second head start but was on his feet only a couple of strokes after the push off. Second time 10s and I caught him just after the turn.

3rd time 15s and he just escaped me

4th time I went all out, caught him for 15s and measured the time. 36 seconds dead, a 2s 50m PB.

If I can repeat 36s then I'm pretty confident I can start to knock holes into my 3 year long records over most distances.

100m (1:24), 200m(3:06), 400m (6:28)

This improvement in speed has happened as I've started to focus on the water rather than the stroke and how each of my movements effects my speed based on the tiles below or the water moving around me.

Fun games anyway.

I also managed to avoid bumping in to his feet and annoying him during his 150 odd length slog.
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Old 01-30-2015
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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Andy, dont you think there is some new efficiency zone when you are swimming faster than 1.30/100m pace?
I am often falling in such a nice flow swimming between 1.20 and 1.30}100m pace.
Its not sustainable very long, but when everything syncs if does feel effortless for some time.
Ar slow speeds I often find it hard to go to catch position without pressing water down, but at higher speeds the arm sinks to the right position all by itself.
Control on the water is also better at higher speed.

Sprinting is fun. Its a magnifying glass for drag sources in your stroke.

Last edited by Zenturtle : 01-30-2015 at 06:37 PM.
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  #3  
Old 01-30-2015
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Zenturtle

I know exactly what you mean!! I have always felt my stroke was better executed at speeds under 1:30 but it's only since I've tried to swim the same way at slower speeds (as opposed to unsustainable heavy gearing) that these recent improvements have occured.

I'm swimming a lot of single 25's with gentle rhythm, holding 14/15SPL whilst concentrating on relaxing as much of my body without releasing form.

After 2 years of triathlon training I find my interest in swimming getting stronger again due to the skill testing opportunity it offers.
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Old 01-30-2015
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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I also have focussed only at getting a controlled connected stroke for the last months without counting strokes or looking at the clock.
Now I am starting to count strokes again and transferring some ingrained fluidity into longer strokes.
When stroking with (what feels like) a mega bodyroll, hooking in way upfront and releasing late I can get to 14-15 strokes at a good pace, but I dont like the long stress cycles on the body and the limited breathing opportunities. Quite exhausting.
Its so much a strenght and flexibility exercise swimming this way, but it has its charms. For very fast poolswimming I can understand people like to take fairly long strokes.
If you can get the rate up it starts to feel good, but wow, its heavy. Most comforatble is 18-19str/25 m at the moment.

Last edited by Zenturtle : 01-30-2015 at 09:53 PM.
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  #5  
Old 01-31-2015
jenson1a jenson1a is offline
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Andy

Mat Hudson wrote an article called Aim For Ease and The Perfect 25. Off and on I have spent a lot of time doing only 1 length and focusing on 1 or 2 points.

However, my question is once you stopped swimming only 1 length, did you have any problem not stopping after that first length? Swimming only at 1 length for me, created a habit and I find doing longer distances very challenging.

Sherry
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  #6  
Old 01-31-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
I'm swimming a lot of single 25's with gentle rhythm, holding 14/15SPL whilst concentrating on relaxing as much of my body without releasing form.
Echoing jenson1a's question, with a specific detail, in your "single 25's with a gentle rhythm", do you end the 25's out of breath? Or are you limiting the sets to 25m because of the intense mental concentration required, and you would burn out your brain if the sets were longer?

Last edited by sclim : 02-01-2015 at 01:31 AM.
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  #7  
Old 01-31-2015
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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My requirements for maximizing the chance of getting the effortless sprint illusion:
1 -An empty mind
Simple be aware what happens,. Only a little real time movement correction,
2 -Perfect timing
A small eroor is allowed, but effort increases exponentially if timing is off.
timing proirities
A- Sync pull/ bodyroll/kick.
B-Start of pull and arm arm recovery at the other side.
If timing is right the recovering arm feels linked to the pulling arm at the start of the pull.
3- maximal relaxation time versus power time.
No stress where its not effective.
4-Having a good high drag arm shape through the stroke with a streanlined straight bodyline.
Setting the paddle before launch.
5- Enter the hand at the right spot so a good catch position is reached automatically.

Mostly only a few items come together,at the same time, but this already gives clues in what direction to steer the stroke.

Maybe Andy has other or the same things on his list?

Last edited by Zenturtle : 01-31-2015 at 09:07 PM.
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  #8  
Old 02-01-2015
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Zenturtle I like your list, I think the imaginary smell of a predator helps too.

Sclim, no I'm not ending them out of breath but doing single 25's gives precise consistency, I can make sure I'm not bumping into anyone in the lane and I'm always starting with a push off in a straight line.

I'll do a mini set of perhaps 8x25 with 5 or so seconds rest between laps. You can almost call it a laboured turn instead of a rest.

Sherry - I know I'd benefit from a few more longer sets at threshold if I wanted to improve my 1500 time. I've learnt over the last few years that the fitness comes back very quickly (5 or 6 sessions) in the summer before race season so during winter I prefer to concentrate on becoming a better swimmer technically with short sets.
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  #9  
Old 02-02-2015
s.sciame s.sciame is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
I've learnt over the last few years that the fitness comes back very quickly (5 or 6 sessions) in the summer before race season so during winter I prefer to concentrate on becoming a better swimmer technically with short sets.
Hi Andy,
then it would be interesting to measure your improvement on 1500m at the end of the process (ie next summer), hope you'll keep us posted.

I ask because I followed a similar approach in the past years, with poor improvement on 1500m (and up) and several plateaus.
Conversely, since last September I'm devoting my practices more to fitness (threshold and aerobic sets with an eye to form, DPS and precise focal points) and I'm appreciating a continuous improvement of 1s/100m per month on my threshold pace (that is my 1500m time is improving by 15s every month) at moderate effort (I'm swimming 10 to 11 times and around 30km per month). Don't know if I'll be able to keep this positive trend till next summer without hitting plateaus but it seems doable for now and half the job is already done. If I do, in 12 months I'll have gained as much as 12s/100m on threshold pace, that means 3 minutes over 1500m, 5 minutes over 2500m and possibly 10 minutes over 5k.
Last summer I observed those many fast distance swimmers (even old and weighty folks) with that ugly loping stroke often sighting every 2 strokes (I guess you've seen them too) and I wondered what they had done in the winter to be that fast...

Cheers,
Salvo
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  #10  
Old 02-02-2015
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Salvo, nice to hear, good luck with the continued progress.

more 100s for me tomorrow.
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