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  #1  
Old 06-09-2014
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Default Fina Master World Championship

Just starting to wonder if this could be an opportunity for me to meet with some of you. I'm fancying the idea of maybe organizing something, like maybe a Swim Training Day? Outdoor?

https://finamasters2014.org/home/
http://blog.swimtrainingday.com/
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  #2  
Old 07-28-2014
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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It started yesterday I think. So just a reminder. I may (and probably will) hold a friendly workshop on Sunday the 3rd downtown Montreal. I'm not doing this for money, but rather to put faces (and strokes) on nicknames. Do not hesitate a minute!

Workshop will probably last 2h15min, including a 15min transition from the dryland room to the pool. So that'd be 60min dryland working on gestures and 60min in the pool applying what we worked on dryland. As simple as that.

Speaking of money, these normally sell for 2 holes punched in a participation card. Best rate one can get is 10$/hole, worst rate is 15$/hole (given that you buy only 2 participation card).

To cut the corners short, I am offering this unique opportunity to meet for a $20 Cnd bill which you should easily find somewhere in some pocket.
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  #3  
Old 08-04-2014
Rincewind Rincewind is offline
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Hi Charles!

Not really a question related to your workshop, but more about this video in your blog:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSkHh3CLle0

I've been doing this drill lately to try and improve my side breathing. What would you say the focal points are for this drill?

Thanks.
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  #4  
Old 08-05-2014
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Hmm, big but interesting question.

This drill is aimed at teaching comfortable breathing. I must say immediately that it does so at the cost of teaching over rotation. Principle is simple. It involves a pause in breathing position. During that pause you're playing with head position, try to feel better balance (for this you may need to switch a bit more on your back, as pure lateral position is hard on balance). You ensure you breathe comfortably before moving to the next step which is recovering the arm at the front ready to take another pull which brings you back in base position, i.e. comfortable breathing position.

I use it mainly during a Training Day to very very rapidly teach comfortable breathing to beginners. The idea is to gradually eliminate the pause.

You see? TI's recently referred to (in other discussions) Nod, or any other drill which teaches very low and efficient breathing profile would be at one end of the spectrum, and this drill which is more of a beginner drill teaches the other end.

You know you're ready to move away from it when you can comfortably breathe both side I'd say. And whilst working on it, it can teach relaxed recovery, work a bit on kick, etc...

It will induce side effects though, as it promotes over rotation.

The main focal point is to ensure that there's a pause during which you improve your comfort breathing.

Oh, I almost forgot. There's another step, a very important one "before" recovering the arm, and "after" the breathing phase. That's our step 2, or position 2. There you reach perfectly lateral position, with face in the water breathing bubbles, so looking down the pool. Therefore step-1 is breathe comfortably, step-2 is exhale comfortably (whilst reaching lateral position), and step-3 recover the arm and let it fall then take a gentle pull which brings you back to step-1. I must also make explicit the fact that position during step-1 is half side half back. The worse the balance (in lateral position), the more you want to be on your back. This in fact can be a first step (and it actually is the first step prior this drill position for pure total non swimmers triathletes wannabe coming to a Training Day).

Grrrr I just had a look back at this clip. You must feel lost. This clip shows the progression in its later stages, when the pauses get eliminated. If you feel a benefit (especially on your worst side), then keep it this way (with less pause in breathing position etc). Here's the drill in its early stage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08ML...d9pVAFVVLGqCaw

Here though, the subject uses the alternate side variation. Again all this is like LEGO blocks, which leads to learning the free quite rapidly. Both subjects aren't perfect. The lady is hyperlax, and articulating her head this way ain't an issue at all for her, so hey... She's a triathlete with fair balance after all. The guy is tensed, didn't know this beginner drill and had hard time remembering to pause lol

Last edited by CharlesCouturier : 08-05-2014 at 02:34 AM.
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  #5  
Old 08-05-2014
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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bit offtopic:
Charles I got to the drafting 200m video,

What do you think is the main difference between the leading and the following swimmer?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce7h...GqCaw&index=35

He is somewhat taller, but the follower seems a bit lost and desperate compared to the very smooth leader.
I see a better whole body- pull connection, the whole core looks tighter and a more stable platform for the pulling and kicking.
Looks like a rigid canoe against a infllatable canoe.

Or could you say simply say that the first is more hip driven and the second more shoulder driven?

While concentrating on a faster , smoother catch in my stroke lately I actually get a better DPS with more roll like the leading swimmer. Really getting that solid arm in the concrete, rolling your body over it feeling.
Must have been a little to patient at the front and now also using the back end more. Pulling to late compared to the body roll. Watching other the swimmers videos here and feeling it can be useful.

Last edited by Zenturtle : 08-05-2014 at 05:59 AM.
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  #6  
Old 08-05-2014
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Hmm, I'm not sure my answer will please you, but since I've coached both of these guys that's pretty much the only answer I could provide.

In this context, on that particular clip, the reality is that the leader is just significantly faster over 200m flat out, that is 1:59 for the leader vs 2:10 (at the very best) for the draftee. So the purpose was to try and get the draftee very close to the max speed he could generate over 200m. The whole effort took 2:20 I think, so a bit of a miss (I would have wish for a faster time, but had to hold the leader back otherwise the draftee would have been dropped).

Now that draftee remains an Kona Finisher, having posted a PB of 9h00 flat over the distance. So the if the same exercise had been done with a himself as a leader and a slower person as a draftee, he would have looked nice and smooth, because he can certainly have a look and smooth technique. That, as long as we don't push the pace too much. He can hold 1:20 for 400m relatively easily (Short Course Meter though). Asking him to hold 1:10 Long Course Meter was a tall order.

Likewise, if we asked our top distance guy to lead a 200m, and get the leader of this clip as a draftee, he would raise a little hell to be able to keep up, and his stroke would look all over the place (as our top distance can very very easily hold 60sec/100m LCM over 200m). That top distance guy swam a 1.9 in some WTC event recently, just for fun, he swam 22min flat.

So the answer to your question is that it's mostly a fitness issue. The leader would train at least 12h/week in the pool (being mostly a swimmer, and secondary to this a triathlete), whereas the draftee would spend no more than 4-5h at most, being a triathlete, and never competing in swim events.

Last edited by CharlesCouturier : 08-05-2014 at 03:46 PM.
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  #7  
Old 08-05-2014
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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Plausible explanation.
Since my arm pull is getting more and more connected with the body, I noticed it is harder to suddenly accelerate the stroke to pass someone.
Its not a matter of stroking faster with the arms, but the whole body has to step up a few notches. Oops, that is tiring.This has to be trained.
I can imagine that the connection starts the become a little shaky when swimming at or over the edge.

The leader is looking much more like a swimmer, but if you should estimate how much power the second swimmer uses compared to the first if they are swimming the same speed in different lanes, how would the required engine size compare?
In this case the second swimmer is swimming above his efficient max speed.
Suppose the first swimmer is powering at 200 watt, at what power level you estimate the second swimmer is swimming with this stroke (like shown in this clip)? 210 watt, 250 watt, 300 watt?
At a lower speed the second swimmer will be getting in a more efficient swim range.
How would you estimate their relative power requirements at 1.15/100m? The same,/second swimmer uses 5% more power/ ???

Last edited by Zenturtle : 08-05-2014 at 05:56 PM.
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  #8  
Old 08-05-2014
Rincewind Rincewind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesCouturier View Post
Hmm, big but interesting question.

This drill is aimed at teaching comfortable breathing. I must say immediately that it does so at the cost of teaching over rotation. Principle is simple. It involves a pause in breathing position. During that pause you're playing with head position, try to feel better balance (for this you may need to switch a bit more on your back, as pure lateral position is hard on balance). You ensure you breathe comfortably before moving to the next step which is recovering the arm at the front ready to take another pull which brings you back in base position, i.e. comfortable breathing position.

I use it mainly during a Training Day to very very rapidly teach comfortable breathing to beginners. The idea is to gradually eliminate the pause.

You see? TI's recently referred to (in other discussions) Nod, or any other drill which teaches very low and efficient breathing profile would be at one end of the spectrum, and this drill which is more of a beginner drill teaches the other end.

You know you're ready to move away from it when you can comfortably breathe both side I'd say. And whilst working on it, it can teach relaxed recovery, work a bit on kick, etc...

It will induce side effects though, as it promotes over rotation.

The main focal point is to ensure that there's a pause during which you improve your comfort breathing.

Oh, I almost forgot. There's another step, a very important one "before" recovering the arm, and "after" the breathing phase. That's our step 2, or position 2. There you reach perfectly lateral position, with face in the water breathing bubbles, so looking down the pool. Therefore step-1 is breathe comfortably, step-2 is exhale comfortably (whilst reaching lateral position), and step-3 recover the arm and let it fall then take a gentle pull which brings you back to step-1. I must also make explicit the fact that position during step-1 is half side half back. The worse the balance (in lateral position), the more you want to be on your back. This in fact can be a first step (and it actually is the first step prior this drill position for pure total non swimmers triathletes wannabe coming to a Training Day).

Grrrr I just had a look back at this clip. You must feel lost. This clip shows the progression in its later stages, when the pauses get eliminated. If you feel a benefit (especially on your worst side), then keep it this way (with less pause in breathing position etc). Here's the drill in its early stage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08ML...d9pVAFVVLGqCaw

Here though, the subject uses the alternate side variation. Again all this is like LEGO blocks, which leads to learning the free quite rapidly. Both subjects aren't perfect. The lady is hyperlax, and articulating her head this way ain't an issue at all for her, so hey... She's a triathlete with fair balance after all. The guy is tensed, didn't know this beginner drill and had hard time remembering to pause lol

Hmm well I was kind of hoping for a more concise explanation, but thanks! lol

Maybe if I state what my current focal points are you could tell me if I am right or wrong...

1. Relaxed rythmic kicking throughout.
2. Early breath, trying to imagine a connection between my chin and the pulling arms shoulder.
3. Follow up to 2, rotating the whole body for the breath, not just turning the head
4. Low head position during breath, one goggle under the water.
5. Hanging on to a 'gliding' feeling throughout, basically not losing momentum between pulls.
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  #9  
Old 08-07-2014
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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That sounds perfect!
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